Nick Zappetti Interview Tape 2 – 24th August 1989 II

Nicola Interview August 24, 1989 II

(Includes Imperial Hotel Diamond Robbery, Yoshiko, Trade Discussion, Omura, First Wife, First Restaurant, Yoshiko)

(LANSCO)

A(con’t) Dollars at that time were maybe 480 520 for a dollar. But the (official) rate was 360. So you sell the dollar checks to somebody and they give you maybe 500 yen. And you give the shipping company maybe like 420, 430. You know, those were big checks and you can make 60 yen on a check per dollar, you’re talking about a lot of money. And, of course, we had a lot of fun those days.

Q: C.F. Sharpe was a shipping company?

A: Yes, but don’t use that name. They’re still here, you know….So, anyway, we used to do that. 

Q: How long did this go on?

A: This went on until Jack Friedman called me up one day…No, ok. I’ll tell you what happened. We had an Australian guy by the name of Roy Bowen who was a real raw-boned Australian with very little fucking brains, but a lot of money. And he went into a store called Evergreen stores with a guy named Huff, and they had these stores where they were selling provisions. And I remember a guy named Warren Delvecchio on day  who sold 4,000 pounds of spaghetti to somebody. And he brought the money to Huff and Huff went into the toilet and was counting all the money. Delvecchio, he was in the same Marine Corps I was in and I got him discharged and he was a corporal, and one of these days I’ll tell you about him…but anyways, so, Huff  was the guy, Roy Bowen broke up with this guy. And Roy Bowen opened some clubs in Zama with another guy called Clancy. Another Australian. And this guy Huff married a Japanese girl and eventually went to Arizona and somebody killed him one day. They used a shotgun through the bathroom and splashed him all over the wall. But that’s history.

Q: Was he Mafia?

A: I don’t know. All I know is he went to the States and somebody shotgunned him to death….And Roy Bowen wound up down here in some city. Toyohashi. I think he started an English school. And I don’t think this guy can write. But he caused me a lot of headaches and trouble because, after he got through with that place in the Ginza (Evergreen), I decided we’re going to steal. And I had one big—these big green boxes full of green money. One full of Japanese yen. One full of MPC’s. On my desk. And I told my partner Leo and Adams, I’m gonna steal. So I think I took 3 million yen the first day, because at that time, that was not a lot of money. Because we were dealing in tremendous money. But I think I took the 3 million yen,–a million yen for each of us—I put it in the drawer, way in back. And Bowen’s desk is next to mine. But he’s too stupid to know what was going on. And I’ll be a son of a bitch is that afternoon, John Friedman didn’t come. John Q. Friedman from the CID. Came and raided the office. With all those Japanese police. And he stood next to my desk. And I know John a long time.Jack Friedman. And he says, “Don’t touch that desk.” And the police are going crazy. They see these three big fucking boxes on the desk. They know it’s got money in it. He says, “Don’t touch that desk.” And I had a book, one of these big ledgers, where I made all my transactions. But I didn’t use page one, two, three. I used on page, and then maybe 15 pages later I used another page. So if you went through the book it would be hard to find a chonological order of what’s happening. So anyway, so, they arrested Bowen, because he was the big wheel, he was the man involved. Leon Greenberg. He was the man involved. He was his lawyer. And son of a bitch if I didn’t have to take that three million yen and bail the bastard out of jail. So we went out of business. We had no money. I wound up virtually broke….But I was in love. I met my mistress. And this was the girl that I made the family very very rich today. One of the bastards that I helped…

We had three Russians. One guy, Leo Yuskoff, the other guy is George Trentieoff who is still in Japan.

Q: Wait a minute. Why didn’t you like Bowen again? 

A: He was an ignorant son of a bitch bastard. 

Q: He do something to you?

A: No, He just was that type of guy. You couldn’t like him. He was …strictly…what do you call those assholes in Australia? Rough and tumble and ignorant. Stupid. But he was an old man, I mean. He was no physical trep (?). But you waste your time talking to him.

Q: What did you have him in the company for anyway?

A: Money. He introduced us to the bank. He had all kinds of money. He had a lot of money. I think he put up $250,000 for us to operate….Then there was a guy named Emerson who was working on that deal too. I was the boss of the outfit. 

Q: He put up $250,000 of operating capital out of his own pocket? Where’d he get his money?

A: Oh, Evergreen stores. Evergreen stores were like Meiji-ya today, or Kinokuniya. Except this was 1950.

Q: He was the owner or the manager of what?

A: He was the partner of this guy Huff. Half owner or something. Then eventually, the operation disappeared… You know those guys used to bring in a truckload of sugar, lay it on the sidewalk and people walk by and buy a whole bag of sugar. You know, 50 pounds of sugar. Can you imagine that? Who ever heard of selling sugar. In those days, nobody knew what sugar was. But they made a lot of money. But I befriended Bowen through the Russian connections. But Bowen was a man that I’d never forget. And those days we used to drink all the time. And the bill would come out. And he go like there (describes delicately opening wallet), and he’d pull out a thousand yen. He probably had a million yen in his pocket, but he would pull out a thousand yen at a time to pay the bill. Anyway, then Bowen introduced me to this guy Leo….another one…Leo is in Russian. I told you they beat him up….Leo was a very intelligent, perfect Japanese. He had a very good brain. He had a commercial mind. If he was in Japan today he’d be the richest guy in Japan. Without a doubt.

Q: Oh, this guy Sazaki. Was he a Nisei of what?

A: Joe Sasaki was a Nisei.

Q: Was he in the military?

A: Yeah. He was just like me. He’s is from Hawaii some place. He was an investigator with me. He was in the army then he was a civilian with me. Working for Civil Property Custodian….We have a …You know AIM? Accuracy in Media? Ever hear of that organization? That’s run by a guy named Reid Irvine. And he was in our organization. He was another guy that would sit there and read the Japanese newspaper. Then he became somebody very big in the Federal Reserve Board. Then he made a magazine called AIM. And the object was to make the newspaper write honest stories.

Q: Back to the 3 million yen. You had to take the money you were going to steal and bail  bail Bowen out. 

A: Right. And that was the end of that. 

Q: What was the date on that?

A: Approximately 1952 or 1953. No, it would be closer to 1956. Because I didn’t go

(Coffee interruption)

Q: Yeah, I was down in that office and it was a lot of fun, because the three Russians that wehad,…now Nick Bobrov works for Radio Moscow. Or he did. His wife Nina worked for the Russian Intourist Bureau of Moscow. Leo, he’s in Siberia somewhere or something like that. They knocked all his teeth out and the guy looks like a mess. This all comes from Dr. Aksenoff. He’s is also a White Russian….

Q: He was in Siberia and they knocked his teeth out?

A: Yeah, cuz he told them about the life he had in Japan. How. Broads everynight. This guy used to go to bed with a bottle of sake and wake up empty. He was a strong boozer. Q: How old was Leo when he was working with you?

A: Oh, he was about ten years older than me. I was 25-30. 32-33 years old. He was about 40. But Butch was younger than me. And George Trentieff was younger than me., Butch and George Trentieoff  decided one day to row to Russia. And they had a red  Dodge. I don’t know which one of the two of them owned it. And they drove all the way up to Wakkanai, Hokkaido. They stole a boat. They’re gonna row to Russia. Except the currents got different ideas up there. And he says one time they were rowing up there and they went right by a Russian patrolboat, but they couldn’t be seen because of the fog. They could hear the voices in Russian. So when they landed, they thought they were in Russia. Instead, they were back in Hokkaido. Then, of course, they got arrested by the CIA. As Russian spies. And communists. And these are just 18-year old kids. Anyway, this is 1955, 56, they’re 18 year old then…..They landed back in the same place. Back in Hokkaido. Arrested as espionage. Spies. They had a car waiting for them. Can you imagine? That’s the car they drove up. They’re putting everything together. They ‘ve got a car waiting for them..But anyway they got that bad time. But the lawyer that got them out of that case was a lawyer named Hinoya, who was in Sapporo. Whom I met. And whom I’m trying to get to work. For me to do my farmland case. They came back to Tokyo….

And I remember those days these three guys, they decided they gonna be Russians, because they don’t wanna be Stateless no more,. They want to have a country of their own. And the girl Nina, these are all Kobe people, you know. And these four people would sit in my office all day long writing applications to become Russian citizens. And in that group there was Helen Higgins, who was a very famous fashion model. She was there, because you know if you go like that you spread out to a tremendous amount of people. And Helen Higgins married Freddie Higgins. Freddie Higgins was a fantastic bowler. She married him because she had TB and she paid for his medical expenses, So that was the relationshp. But anyway, the day came when these 4 Russians had the opportunity to go to Russia. And the one that pissed backwards was George Treientioff. He says, I’m not gonna go.And he stayed in Japan. And George is a real Russian.Russians never tell you the truth. They will barefaced lies. Boy I mean I know them well. They were in my office everyday for months.Years probably. They were part of my company. Leo was. The other two were just black market. The Russian Embassy in Azabu over here would never give them a bad time for black marketing. The American government couldn’t touch them because they were allies. And if they did do anything, then the Russian Embassy would protect them. But if they parked a car illegally, now they had a different problem, because now the Russian government only wanted them to disrupt the economy. But don’t fuck around with a fight in the street or something like that. Black marketing or anything to disrupt the economy was fair hunting. So we used them to black market.  

I remember one day we wound up with a lot of ball gum. You know the kind you put in a machine. We had thousands of pounds of  it. We picked up. We went around trying to sell ballgum. We couldn’t sell ballgum. So we hired a group of guys to go around to all the people who didn’t want to buy the ballgum, from like Akihabara. Okachimachi. We hired about 4 guys to go down there and ask everyone if they wanted to buy ballgum. And everybody says they don’t have any ball gum. (ed. Don’t want?)…So we created a market for people to buy ballgum. And then these guys called us up and said you got  some ballgum. And we said everybody wants ballgum. And we got rid of the fucking ballgum. We made a nice big fat profit on it. They bought it from us and they couldn’t sell it to anybody. We created a market. I’ll never forget that maneuver.

And, of course, we were selling dollar checks. And then I got graduated. And I started writing dollar checks. For 10% of the face value. And I signed Franklin Delanor Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. I signed any fucking name. And I get 10% of the face value.

Q: Let me have that again about the checks?

A:  We write checks. You come over, you want to buy a dollar check. I write a check. And I’m selling it to you who has another buyer. So I never meet the buyer. And I write the check, because I can write English. And the Japanese says I got a man who wants to buy a check for $3,000. I says, Ok, I write it, I give him the check, I get 10% cash. And he sells the check for 480 or 500 or some shit like that, and there is no bank. You know, it’s a phony check.

There was a guy called Bob Booth. He was the father of that business. Somehow or other he went to Texas or he did something in Texas and he came out with checkbooks, with this bank in Texas where the town didn’t even exist. And he was writing these fucking checks on a bank in Texas that there was no such thing as a bank in Texas. Bob Booth. Very famous in those days. He invented a bank in Texas. And here we are we are using Bank of America paper and everything else and this guy he made his own fucking bank. There were a lot of smart people in those days.

Q: There was no limit to criminal ingenuity, was there?

A: I remember one day we went to a “joza” (gyoza) place. Right across from Sembikiya there was this place that sold gyoza. Japanese raviolis. Steamed and boiled and fried. And one day me and Adams and Leo and maybe George Trentieoff, we sat there and Idon’tknow how many beers we…and we bought 48 fucking dishes. They must have about 15 or 20 of gyoza in each one. And we stacked them way up here. 48 dishes of gyoza.And I can still eat them today.

Then there was another guy, if I can remember his name. He was another character.

Q: Let me get this straight for a minute. George Trentieoff was a friend of Leo’s. Leo brought these Russian guys in. And they were just there in the Occupation? The Russian Government brought them in? or what?

A: No. They come from Kobe. They were born and raised in Kobe. 

Q: Leo and George Treientoff. And

A: Nick Babroff. (Bobrov?)  He’s the one in Radio Moscow. Or he was.

Q: His wife was Nina. 

A: Nina. A very talented girl. She used to sit in the office all day long with a notebook and make patterns. Did you ever see anybody do that?

Q: Yeah, if they were on drugs or something.

A: This girl was a straight click (chick). She’d make a box and then she’d make lines this way and lines that way. And she made patterns all day long. She was a young girl, 18 years old. And this girl says that when they go to Russia, they are going to have children and give them to the state. That must have been the propaganda in those days. I said you mean you’re going to go through childbirth and have all the pain, and then you’re going to give the baby away? She says yes. For the motherland. Crazy. Now she works for Intourist. She’s probably a big wheel there now. She’s got to be 55 or 60 years old. Because they were about 20 years old when I was 35. That means they got to be 53, 55 years old today….George is about 50 years old today.  He’s got a yakitori place in Ichinohashi. One of these days I’ll take you there and you can meet him….This guy, you can add what he says to the book, but you gotta remember, this guy won’t tell you the truth….I gotta  lot of trouble with that son of a bitch. But, anyway. So where do want to go?

Q: Well, we’re in 1953. You’re broke. You just spent your last money bailing Bowen out of jail.

A: So then we continued money laundering until 1956. In the meantime. You know a guy named Togo? A very famous artist. He makes picture of white girls flowing. He’s a very famous artist here. And one day Leo to me to his…some place in Setagaya where he’s got his studio. And I met his daughters. And I tell you I wanted to fuck’em right there. Just hit’em and fuck’em right there. Just don’t care who was watching. Oh my god, what luscious things. And that day he took me down to Meguro. Meguro Station. And he introduced me to this Yoshiko Takaishi, who became my mistress. She was 18. You talk about a beautiful fucking broad. God damn it she was beautiful. I fell in love instantly. Instantly.

 And this girl’s father, had 3 operations going at one time in one building. In the downstairs  was curry/udon place and in the front there on Meguro street, he had a strawberry shortcake operation. And then up on the second floor he had a little club where you dance and whatnot. And I met this girl, and I tell you I fell in love instantly. She was beautiful. Intelligent.  Anyway, so ..

Q: What was her name?

A: Yoshiko Takaishi. Now, her married name is Yoshiko Okada. Now she speaks French and she’s a French buyer. For the Lillian clothing stores. Boutiques.  There’s one over there in Meguro. So I went with her and lived with her. I lived by now what they call the Ebisu Beer plant, where they spent a lot of money to do something over there. (ed note: New shopping complex. Beerhall.) That’s where Prince Mikasa used to live next door, just around the corner.

Q: So you split up with your first wife then?

A: Yes. I had 2kids, but she wouldn’t give me a divorce…Anyway, I stayed with Yoshiko and I lived with her.Full time. And, of course, I would go to Fujisawa every once in a while. But they didn’t appreciate me. They didn’t care for that fucking gaijin. 

Q:Who’s they?

A:My son. My son. He still doesn’t like me. But his mother, I told you. We only fucked twice a year,or something like that. I gotta find sex. Yoshiko was a great piece of ass.But they all are when they’re young. Anyway, so I stayed with Yoshiko. While I was with her, I was down and out and broke, which was normal procedure. But after I got through laundering money and selling phony checks and black market, I met a guy by the name of Tom Duncan. You can write his name because I don’t give a shit. But anyway. Tom Duncan was the manager of the old Kaiji Billet. Which is now the Kaijo building. The Kaijo Insurance Company down by Tokyo Eki. And he was the club manager and I used to rent slot machines for $100 a month. And I used to take them to my home which was by Shinagawa Station and I used to play with these machines and I used to figure out how they operated—some pieces would break, I used to take them out. Make the machine work again. And I placed these machines in the hotels, in the R&R days.The Americans would come in. Get a girl for a week. They called them “onlies.” They don’t want to call them whores. They call them onlies because the girl only stays with them for one week. 

So somehow or other I got involved with a hotel called the Hotel New York in Mukojima. And I put slot machines in there. And I used to live in that hotel. I can’t remember why or how. I can’t remember if that was after I got arrested. Anyway, I had 7 slot machines. And I was living with Yoshiko in …you know the name of the street, but I can say the name of the street. You know you go out from Shingawa station, you go up the hill. You make a left turn over there.  They got a street there..They got the Koito Hotel there. This guy T. Bone Pinkins is trying to get the company. I used to live on that street.

And I had 7 slot machines. And I was doing very good. And I put bugs on the machines so you could never hit anything strong. One day I would knock off the jackpot, and the next day I would knock off the 3 bells. I learned how to use the machine without paying money out. Nobody cared about winning. They just wanted to play. And they were using 10 yen coins. Unstamped 10 yen coins. I went to Sugamo, the government printing place in Sugamo, used to be Sugamo prison, and I went there and I guess I kenw the right guy and he used to give me bags of these coins. They were unprinted. They were unstamped. And they had these 10 yen coins. Put them in the machine and you play with them.

Q: Why you get those? What’s the point?

A: The American machine is made for the quarter. 10 yen works on it. I still think today if you put a 10 yen coin in a quarter machine it will work. Of course, I wouldn’t want to get caught doing such a silly thing. But you know the Korean, 5 yen coin, is the same as a Japanese 100 yen coin. 500 won is same as 500 yen coin, or some shit like that. I did that for quite some time and I never had trouble, till one day I bought a horse racing machine from Tom. And this is a machine. I don’t know if you ever …the thing had electric lights and the horses went all around. If it stopped on the horse you played, it paid so much to one. Then the police came over and they said they don’t mind me running around with slot machines, but now I’m getting too big for my britches. I’m going into electrically operated machines. And they didn’t like that. So I had to give back the machine. 

Then there was a prick by the name of Frank Scolinas. A lawyer. 

And, I used to work for him as an investigator, at times. Certain work I would do for him. And he knew about my machine operation. And he got in touch…Service Games got involved. They were not even in Japan. And through Frank Scolinas, they got into the slot machine business. And they became very big worldwide. That was Dick Stewart. And a guy name Brandley (garbled?), another guy named LeClaire or something like that. LeMere or something like that. And I didn’t like Dick Stuart. He was a cold blooded son of a bitch. But these guys are still doing that business, I’m sure.

Q: What was Scolinas connection?

A: He was a lawyer. He represented them. And he got them into Japan or something like that….But then again, I wasn’t smart enough. 

Q: So what did he do to you?

A: He learned everything about slot machines through me because I was running them. But I wasn’t sharp enough to know that you could buy machines or have them made and brought’em in. So these guys came in with machines and they took over the clubs and whatnot. They brought in machines and they put in management. And they controlled all the slot machine business in the military. 

Q: Any connection to the mafia, these guys?

A:No. No way. Probably operated out of London. But not Mafia business. The Mafia would never hired a Stewart or a LeMare. They use (garbled). They use all Italian people there. So anyway, I was doing that for a while. And I had the slot machines. And then I got involved with Hotel New York because they had my slot machines. And then one day a guy by the name of John MacFarland came along. And he stayed in in the Hotel New York. And he had no money. He was a big mother. AC-DC. And because I got to know him, he decided he was going to steal the Imperial Hotel Diamonds. You ready for that story?

(IMPERIAL HOTEL DIAMOND ROBBERY)

So, through John MacFarland, we’re sitting there. I got money cause I’m making money from the slot machines. When I say that I got money I was making, oh, maybe more than enough that you need to live. I know I was bowling. No, I wasn’t bowling then. But anyway, one day John says, what can we steal, I need money. I want money. And I says, I don’t know, I don’t know nothing about stealing. I’m not a thief. I make money from slot machines. 

Q: How old was he?

A: John was younger than me. Because he was in Iwo Jima. He was in World War II. And he went from private to lieutenant in one day combat in Iwo Jima. He got his hand fucked up or something. He was 6’4” and he weighed 250 or 260.

(takes phone call)

So anyway, Senator MacFarland from the United States Senate came to Japan and stayed at the Imperial Hotel. This is 1956. So he stayed at the hotel. And John says my name is MacFarland, my passport is MacFarland. So why don’t I go to the hotel and impersonate MacFarland’s son. I said, “Yeah, we could sign his name and do this and that.\ And so, one world led to another and we said, that’s a good idea. John MacFarland goes there and says he the son of Senator MacFarland. And he’s got the passport and everything to prove that his name is MacFarland. And he moved into Room 301. Probably one of the best rooms in the hotel. That’s the Old Imperial. So anyway while he’s in the room, he goes downstairs…we planned together this…we buy a lot of  stuff from the shopping center there, bring it up to the room,  give it to me, and because of my black market activity and knowledge, I used to dump this stuff and get half the price for it. It’s a lot of cash. And I gave him half and I kept half. I was making money. Not big money. But I was eating again. Regularly. So anyway, he decides he’s going to steal the Imperial Hotel diamonds. Ok, let’s steal the Imperial Hotel Diamonds.

Q: Wait. This stuff he brought up from the arcade. He steal it?

A: No, he signed for it. He was a resident of the hotel.

Q: And they send the bill to the States?

A: They send the bill to him. But fuck it, who cares. So now John. AC-DC John. Naturally, knows a lot of queer boys. And they used to come and visit him. To buy hamburgers and what not. And he used to pass out 5,000 yen tips. And in those days, 5,000 yen was a lot, a lot of money. It could have been three months, four months pay for people. So you can get an idea of what 5,.000 yen was.So anyway, we went and we decided we were going to steal the hotel diamonds., We say ok, the guys bring the diamonds up, we show ‘em some money. And reject the diamonds and just find out what they drink. And the second time they come up, we load their drinks with knockout pills.And we take all the diamonds. Take all the money. Clean the room out. And knock them out. So it was a good idea. So now, I ventured into my first crime. My first real crime. So MacFarland, we got it all planned and everything. And  then at  the last minute

The son of a bitch says to me, I want a gun. I say,”What do you need a gun for? You’re 6’4”. You weigh 250 pounds. Japanese, you just get them and bounce their heads together, you don’t need a gun.” I said, “A gun is a violent act. That’s crazy.”

He says, “No, I gotta have a gun.”

            I said, “If you gotta a gun. I’m out. I don’t want nothing to do with it.” 

            He said, “If you don’t get me a gun, I’m gonna say that you are partners with me.”

            So it was a terrible threat. Because he would do it. 

             And he didn’t like Al Shattuck, who was running the Latin Quarter. Cause he gave Al Shattuck a check for $2,000 and the check bounced. You know, Senator MacFarland’s son gave him a check and the check was no good. And all Shattuck is a very famous name here. At that time. The Latin Quarter, over at the New Japan.

Q: Still open?

A: No, I shouldn’t say that.Al Shattuck started Club 88, which is down the street here where the Sony Building is. He started Club 88. So then Al Shattuck got involved…they build the Latin Quarter, and Al Shattuck was in charge of the Latin Quarter or something like that at the New Japan Hotel. Something like that. I don’t know the precise exact things. So there was this bad feeling between Shattuck and MacFarland because of the $2,000 check. Mac says, “I’ll get him.” That was just another small incident. So anyway, he wanted a gun and I didn’t know what the fuck to do. I didn’t have a gun. And I didn’t want him against me, because he was a queer and queers can get awfully fucking vicious. So I called a friend of mine up and I said I need a gun. And this guy was a civilian, a GS-15 in the military. He became a very big wheel in Washington DC. So you should not use his name. But his initials are W. W. When he reads your book he knows its him. He was at Zama. He was like the Transportation Chief, but don’t use that. Anyway he was born in Germany, his last name is Duke, he was in the 11^th Airborne Paratroopers. He was a major. Wally Duke.  W. W. Duke. And one day, he wanted a divorce and I gave him 2,000 dollars for a divorce. …Wellington is one of his names. Walter Wellington Duke. Or some shit like that. Anyway, so I got a gun from him. .38 special. And I made a mistake. I gave it to a fucking Japanese Korean kid whose father is the manager editor of the Yomiuri Sports paper. Hochi. The Hochi. His name is Yamamoto….ME in 1956. I gave the gun to his son. And he brought it to MacFarland and gave it to MacFarland. And I was out.

MacFarland called these guys up. They brought up the diamonds and he just hit them in the fucking head. Took the diamonds. Can you imagine a guy with dyed red hair, 6”4” 260 pounds, walking down the fucking street. And it took them until 8 o’clock at night to catch this guy. And they caught him in the Latin Quarter. Sitting at the bar having a drink. And he got his revenge against Shattuck.

Q: How?

A: He said, “I gave the diamonds to Shattuck.” Oh Jesus Christ. And Shattuck, that particular day, the poor bastard, went to Manila, that same fucking night, Shattuck went to Manila. And, of course, they catch me and they put me in jail. They give me bread and water. And they gave me bread and water.

Q: Wait, let’s back up. The guy brought the  diamonds. Mac hit him with what?

A: His bare hands. He took the diamonds.

Q: You didn’t get a gun for him.

A”: I got him a gun but he didn’t use it. He used his bare hands. He put the gun in his pocket. He put the diamonds in another pocket. And he went down and just walked around Tokyo. And he went to Gsell’s. Irene’s restaurant. Gasell. (?) And this was down in Nihonbashi. You know, on the corner of Showa  Dori. She hada downstairs Russian-Hungarian restaurant or some fucking thing like that. You know that place? You can put their name in there because I don’t give a fuck. Anyway, Mac goes in the place and he sits at the counter. And the gun is in a brown paper bag. He leaves it on the god-damn barshelf. Bar counter. And when he leaves he forgets the gun. Paul Gsell, the son of that fucking thing. You can’t blame him what he did. He picked up the brown paper bag and every dope would know it’s a gun. And you could feel it. And the weight is there. You know, guns are very heavy….Anyway her son calls the police. The police now have got the gun. But my fingerprints are not on it. I’m not about to pass a gun with my fingerprints on it. But I took all the bullets of of it and threw them away and I think I took the holster out also, so all he had was a bare gun. But I had to give him the gun. I had no choice.

Q: He pulled the gun on the guy to get the diamonds?

A: I don’t know. The truth is I don’t know. I don’t think so.

Q: Say he pulled the gun. It’s more exciting.

A: Ok. Say he pulled the gun. But I really don’t know….so he took the gun and the diamonds and he walked out of the hotel. 8 o’clock at night. Now remember this guy is a psycho. He got hit in the head during World War II. He used to sit in the car with me and I used to drive the car. This is my girl Takaishi’s brother’s car. And he’d go in a fit. This guy is so big. And his fucking brain would snap. Ra, ra, ra, ra, ra like that. Scared the living piss out of me. But he was a psycho. What do you call it a sizzophriziac?

Q: Schizophrenia.

A: Schizophriziac. Cuz one time, he’s ok and another time he’s different see. And he married the daughter of Yasuda. You know the Yasuda zaibatsu family. He married the daughter and I don’t know what happened to that marriage. You know the Yasuda zaibatus family. Yasuda batteries and what not. And he was still playing with queers. So anyway, they caught him in the Latin Quarter. 8 o’clock at night. And they brought him in. They catch him real quick. I mean like how can you miss. He didn’t even try to hide. So, anyway, through interrogation and through different things, they got all the queer boys in jail. All of them in different jails. And all of them said the same thing: “This crime was planned by Mr. Zappetti.” Nice kids. Well, I can not deny that I was involved in the conversation, but I was not involved in the fucking robbery. But anyway, so, you sit down and you talk about this and you talk about that. And you say “let’s do this.” But you never do it.

Q:Didn’t you split the profits with him?

A: We never got that far. The thing was, what he was supposed to do, was knock them out. Then I come in the room. Take then diamonds, take the phony money out, cleanup the room, take everything out and there is no evidence. No fingerprints. No evidence. Then I give him the medicine. And he gets knocked out. And it was very cute. Cuz the first guy that wakes up, the other two guys are out and there’s no money and no diamonds. And I always ask the question what would you do? Would you call the police? Would you call the hotel manager. Would you call your boss downstairs? And they come up and find the other two guys out? And you’re not out? You say, “What did you do?” I said, “I didn’t do anything.” They’re out. What did you do? So, the first guy can’t move., The 2^nd guy wakes up. And he says to the first guy what did you do? You knocked that guy out. And you knocked me out. Cuz I just woke up. And you’re awake. So you took the money and the jewelry and you did everything yourself. You son of a bitch. You remember that conversation. You never know what two clerks will talk about, especially when you’re dealing with diamonds. I like this one or I like that one. Then MacFarland wakes up. Instantly. He knows what’s going on. He says, You son of a bitch. You stole my money. I’m gonna call the police. But instead of following that plan. He gets up, takes the jewelry and walks out.

So then he said, “Shattuck’s got it.”So they arrested him. And all the fucking queers were saying that I did it. They found me in there and they arrested me. And they kept me in the Marunouchi police station. And they kept me at the main police station. And they also put me in Kosuge Prison. Because the case was getting so big there was no place to hide the witnesses. So they don’t talk to each other, you know….So I was at Kosuge prison, and while I was at Kosuge prison….you ever hear of a writer by the name of Lincon Stephens? He’s a very famous country writer. A newspaper editor. You should check him out. He’s got a book that he wrote. He knows everybody. He met Hitler an Mussolini and he’s got all their pictures. And he was…son of a bitch I’ll never forget that cocksucker. When he was only 6 or 7 years old he was riding horses in the Midwest. He helped women deliver their babies. He was Jesus Christ when he was 7 years old, you know. But anyway, I read that book. About what a great do-gooder he was, and here I’m sitting in the fucking prison—real prison, you know. Kosuge prison has got those big fucking walls, you know. And I got solitary confinement, one man to a room. Did you ever go to prison? Did you ever see how they operate a fucking prison?

Q:  I’ve been to Rahway State Prison. I interviewed a convicted murderer there.It was one of the most depressing places I’ve ever been. 

A: This fucking place had a bed. It was a small room. It’s a small room. 6’ by 9’ and the bed takes 6 by 3, and then they  had a little walk and then over here they had the toilet seat. Then they had a sink and you covered the sink. And you sit on the toilet seat all day long. And that was your home, you know. And I used to lay in bed…and they got peek windows they look  in and if they see you laying in bed., they’d come in there. They couldn’t really do anything to me, because I was not convicted of any crime. I was just there because the other police stations were crowded. And in the police, word moves, you know. You can easily talk from one person to another even though he is in a different place. 

So anyway, I got caught and they put me there. And then they caught Shattuck. And after they caught Shattuck, they realized that I was telling the truth and that I had nothing to do with it. Yeah, I gave them the gun. I didn’t even admit to the gun, not even. I say I don’t know nothing. I don’t know nothing. And I think I was there 28 days on bread and water. It was a miserable fucking life. And the bread you got, they gave you jam. And peanut butter with sugar in it. And a cheap, cheap grade of jam. I never forget, it was gray. And I couldn’t eat this shit. And I used to give it to the Japanese. And they were so glad. They get to eat something different. You know, they get hot water and rice.

………And they give me hot water with the bread and jam. And I couldn’t eat it. They wouldn’t give me cold water. But that’s what I ate for 28 fucking days.

Q: They wouldn’t give you cold water?

A: Nope. Japanese all drink hot water, you know that.

Q: Why, to avoid disease?

A:…tea, tea,tea,/. You ever see a Japanese drink cold water? Very few people drink cold water. You put it on the table, they’ll drink it. But not at home.

…turn that fucking music off.

I got an estimate on fixing this place. Did I tell you? I’m gonna do it. But anyway.

So I was there, 28 days on bread and water. Finally Leon Greenberg, my lawyer, decided that it would be better if he became a character witness and that I get another lawyer. He introduced me to another lawyer. So of course I had to go along with what my lawyer recommends. So then I had to take a rap. And there was a choice between the gun charge and the Imperial Hotel Robbery. Well, I’m guilty of the gun charge. But not guilty of the fucking robbery. So I decided, ok, I’ll take the beating on the gun rap. Now the gun rap automatically deports you. So I had to use a lot of influence. And I did. And I got the court to find me guilty of illegal possession of a gun. And they gave me 8 months in jail and a suspended sentence for 3 years. And a 50,000 yen fine or some shit like that.

Q:What did you say, you got to the judge?

A: Yes.

Q: What did you do, bribe him?

A: No, I usedd Mr. Akaboshi, my sponsor. Mr. Akaboshi was my sponsor and he got to somebody. And he told me all you gonna get is a suspended sentence for 8 months.and a 50,000 yen fine. So don’tworry about it. So my sentence was predetermined. So now, I’m sitting in Keishicho and I got the report about what’s going to happen. I agreed to the gun rap. I get the sentence, agree to pay thefine, I’m ok. But now I got to figure out how to get 50,000 yen. Because my girl is gone.She left me. My wife ain’t got that kind of money. So I sent a telegram to New York to my father to send me money.

Q: You’re girl left you because or this?

A: Oh, yea. Everybody left. My god, my name was in the paper. You know how embarassing it was to them? But I tried to keep everybody out of it. I never talked. I never told them what I true mother’s name was. My father. I never told them anything. You know you sit there and they want to write a big history about you. And I used to always change the name, change the dates, change the places, so when they started matching the stories, none of them matched. So anyway, I went through that. I got released. The only problem I had is when they release you…You’re supposed to only stay 22 days in jail. You get 2 days and they give you 10 days…and another 10. It’s a kangaroo court. I remember I went before the judge, my first two days. And they looked at me and I got a beard and a dirty look and whatnot. And I asked the judge is it all right if I look presentable, because you’re dressed, you got a shirt, you got a tie. You got a clean shave. I look like a pig. And I don’t feel comfortable talking to you unless I’m clean.    And he like he said, “Ten days.” He didn’t give a shit what I said. So I got 10 days detention. 10 days later, I went up and I asked the judge the same thing. I would like to present myself in the proper manner. And he said “Ten days.”And I said like “Fuck you you son of a bitch.” So I got 22 days. Then 22 days became 32 days. 42 dys. I think I stayed there 47 days. Or some shit like that. I don’t know. I stayed there a long time.

Q: Same clothes?

A: Same clothes. Of course. I should say. I got out in February. So I must have stayed there 28 days. I got out in Febrarury. The police were polite. They’re not bastards. Some were bastards…

(YOSHIKO)

.So I says to the guy I can’t go home to my wife. So I say where’s my girl friend. The guy says, “Oh, she’s up in Kosatsu skiing with another guy.” I said, Oh, that’s nice, that’s a real nice girl. And I said, “You sure.” And he says, “Oh, yeah, we keep tabs on everybody.”

So I got out, I weighed 147 pounds. I had my father send $500 twice. So I had a thousand bucks, which the lawyers properly stole. But I did come out with some money. I had a lawyer by the name of Kobayashi, the son of a bitch. On the Ginza. I don’t know his first name.    

I had some money in my pocket, I took a train. I went up to Kosatsu. I went  into the ski lodge where she told me she was at. And I could see her. She’s there with her brother and his wife. And her new boy friend. You know. Now, mind you, I was only gone for a month. So I went in the place. She didn’t recognize me. I had a suit on. A dress shirt and tie. A mustache. I was 147 pounds instead of 220. So you can imagine,who the fuck would recognize me. So I go in there, see Yoshiko and say, “Yoshiko!” She’s looking around, she hears my voice, she knows its me. But she can’t see me. Because there a lot of people up there skiing.”Yoshiko!” I stood no more than 5 feet away from her and turn my back and say, “Yoshiko” and she looked all around. And finally she figured out, that’s Nick. And she ran upstairs. And this guy ran after her. And I ran after him. And they got up to the second floor. And this guy jumped off the fucking balcony into the snow. And I jumped off the balcony into the snow after the son of a bitch. And that was the end of him. Japanese guy….So anyway, so we all came back to Tokyo together. Now, I found that my house was empty. Her father took all the stuff out of the house. And her I am. I got money in my pocket but no place to sleep. No more girl friend. And I wanted to fuck because I didn’t fuck for 3-4 weeks. 5 weeks. My broad was a great fuck. She suck me and make my brains blow out. She was great. The greatest piece of ass I ever had. Or one of the greatest pieces of ass I ever had…..so I couldn’t get near her no more. I went to Meguro. They had this pachinko parlor there that I introduced them to…. I made them so fucking riche…It’s still there. Hyakumon dollar pachinko. Takaishi Kogyo or something like that….When you go to Meguro Station, you go in, it’s the building  right in front. Stations on the leftside…..

(YOSHIKO) 

So, anyway, to get back to that particular day. You know Tonki Tonkatsu Meguro. That store used to be next to where these people used to live. But they cut it out, they made a big thoroughfare there….side of railroad tracks. So I was in there talking to her one day and I heard the dogs barking. And I went outside and there’s this guy peeing in the doghouse. Fucking Japanese. Of course I hit that son of a bitch so hard, I knocked him out with one punch. That was the end of him. Then I got hit from behind and let me tell you I went on my ass. I rolled. I got up. And I started fighting with this mother fucker but he put getas on his hands…Everytime I punch I’m hitting these fucking geta.

(trade talk.)

 Q: They’ll glide for tenyears.,etc.)

A:  No way.

SIDE B

(TRADE DISCUSSION)

(000)

A: Public opinion is going to go  against the Japanese. The more they infiltrate the United States, the more the public will recognize them and they are  arrogant bastards. They’re very arrogant.

The basic difference between the Japanese and the American is that the American believes that the other guy has got the same right as he has and the other guy is not an Italian-American or an Irish-American or French-American, he’s an American of some type. But the Japanese is Japanese-Japanese and he doesn’t believe that anybody has any rights except the Japanese Japanese. 

Q: How are they acting arrogant in the United States? Any examples?

 A: They act in an an arrogant manner that is how shall we say smoothly done. You know did you watch this Japanese, a young man, speaks good English, in Australalia, trying to buy land. And they had a meeting that they didn’t like the idea. And he sat there and he sat, “So you kicked the shit out of us in World War II.” 

How many ignorant bastards like him because he said that.  And that was his mode, to get inside of them, insult himself and take what he wants. That’s the Japanese. Isn’t that the way they think, the humbleness of the Japanese?   And when he bows down he’s got a unicorn on his head and he sticks it up your ass…You can read itin the newspapers in  the Japan Times. es. Among the journalists, it must go around like wildfire. You want to get your name in the Japan Times? Write something nice about them .I betcha that office in the Japan Times is flooded with communiques. And stories of ..pro-Japanesen stories.Slightly tinted. They take a subject that the Japanese are very weak at. And they say that’s not really true. These people are really nice.It’s just a misunderstanding. And the Japanese newspaper people they like to write that. That’s all part of the propaganda machine.

But that man in the street, he’s not a book writer and he’s not a newspaper writer. He lives by guts and his gut feelings will decide…

Q: So you’re saying they’ll buy then land…

A: They want the land and they’ll do anything to get the land. They’ll kiss your ass…I read your book and can you imagine, this guy is grabbing this guy’s pecker. What kind of fucking animals do that. Where is the gentlemanship and all the things you write about when the guy reaches down and grabs you buy the pecker…Where is that? Of course, they can say we can do that because we’re in the locker room and nobody can see us. And ain’t that the true character of the Japanese?  When he’s out on the street he’s one person. When he’s at home, he’s a different person.….

Q: When you say arrogance is going to do them in…how do you…do you think the U.S. government is going to levy a tax on landowners?

A: I don’t think America can do that because there is so many other landowners. I think the Americans will come out with some kind of DIFFREYENTIATE/diffreyeniate between the two of them see. We are anti-Japanese because they killed and bombed Pearl Harbor. And this that and the other thing and then they came and they bought land. But how can you be against an Arab who buys land?  He didn’t bomb us. He didn’t kill us. He didn’t try anything like that. How can you be against the British that we went to help. See? So the law. How can you bend the law to, how do you say, reach out and slap a Japanese in the face without slapping other foreigners that buy land? Or things that.

I think the Japanese in the end will lose because the unions will beat them. I don’t think anybody else can beat them. And the unions are the people. 

Q: How will that manifest itself?

A: If you show the difference between what they do in Japan and what they do in the United States.as their so called great management. You can see the difference.

Q: Example.

A: Do you think that the Japanese has got any rights in the work place? He’s allowed totalk. You see it in baseball. They’ll gather on the mound, but who’s got the final word. And who has got the only word? The manager. So over here in the workplace it’s the same thing. They’ll get together and have meetings and talk and this that and the other thing,but in the end it is the boss who already made the decision before they talk…..This is the, how do you say it, the front, the show?

Q: So all this stuff about consensus doesn’t really exist.

A: Naw. It doesn’t exist….The Japanese, they have what you call LONG EYES. You ever heard that expression? You know what long eyes are? They see tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. The American looks at the bottom line. Japanese look to the future. So they already got all their plans made out, how they gonna go, how they gonna go….So you have a meeting between one of the plans? That don’t mean shit. They still gonna follow their plan.  

Q:1941.

A: Why do you say that?

Q: Attack on Pearl Harbor.

A: You’re not that silly are you? They started an economic but they didn’t get nowhere, right? They started economically to go to China in 1926 with that murderous Hirohito. Then they couldn’t succeed in what would you call it, a civilian way. Then they decided that the only way they could get then islands and the property that they wanted was to go militarily. They lost that way and then they went back to a civilian…what do you call it  non-military acquisitions. America gave them a bad time for going into China. America shut off their steel. America shut off their oil. Didn’t we? Didn’t we have an embargo against the Japanese? In 1939, 40 or 41?

Q: How are the unions going  to do  it. 

A: The man is street is going to do it. And the man in the street reads your book. And the man in the street talks to another man in the street. First of all, the Japanese can never buy the man in the street. He can buy Kissinger and he can buy Gerald Ford. And he can buy Richard Nixon and he can buy all those named people. But he can’t buy the man in the street. And the man in the street will be the Japanese downfall. Take Hawaii. They can’t buy Fasi. He’s the mayor of Honolulu. He comes right out and says, “We don’t need you here. Get the hell out. And yet 98% of that fucking island speaks Japanese. Including the white man. And yet, the mayor gets up and says “Shove off.” ….Now didn’t I read somewhere that they are going to stop the purchase of private properties  and allow only commercial properties to be sold. I read that a couple of days ago. I think in the United States. That would be one way to stop the Japanese. And everything the Japanese buys that’s commercial property, he has to hire somebody to do it. To do the work on the commercial property.

Anyway, I don’t know if this is a plus to you, but you take the island of Hawaii…you want to destroy the Japanese? Again, the unions. If the unions organize the hotel labor. And they decide they are going to do something, the hotels will be no employees. And what will the value of the hotel be without any employees. Just like this fucking restaurant. If I had 100 people sitting here with no waiters and no cooks, what am I going to do with a 100 people. Will they come back tomorrow and sit down and wait for 30 minutes.

Q: But what would they go on strike for?

A: Anti-Japanese. Plain anti-Japanese.

Q: You mean go on strike until the Japanese sell?

A: Get out. And when you think about it, who wants to be anti-Japanese? You tell me a Jew that is not anti-Arab. You tell me a Frenchman that is not anti-German. You tell me an Italian that is not anti-black. See? They breed anti-something in America. Everybody has hate. That’s what I say, books like yours. Will only put wood on the fire. Somebody will read it. Somebody will say that’s true. 

Q: So you thought my book (You Gotta Have Wa) was anti-Japanese?

A: Every bit of it. It put me to shame.

Q: (laugh)

A: No, really. Because you never let up….The last part of the book, didn’t blend, cuz you tried to appease the situation, in the epilog, is that what you call it, out of rhythm with the rest of the book.

Q: Well, epilog really did not belong there,but I had all this material about level of play, I wanted to use, etc, etc. blah, blah Book is about cultural conflict and whether or not they can beat the Americans at baseball is beside the point. Still, people want to know about that.

A:  It sort of lets down the reader. Instead of say banzai at the end, it says, let’s kiss their ass.

Q:No, it didn’t say that.

A: I’m just exaggerating their statements….No, cuz I hate the Japanese from the first page to the last page. There’s no such thing as in between. But I think they will cut their own throat. Their ARROGANCY/arrogancy (sic) is a long-winded operation. If you say, the Chinese…when Hirohito got in power in 1926, it took him 6 years or less than that to invade China. So he went into China in 1931 or 1932. Or something like that. They killed 50 million Chinese. Minimum….So now Tienaman Square, they killed 3,000,the Japanese say, well, we don’t want to get involved, ‘cause we killed 50 million.

Q: Ok. One more thing I wanted to ask you before we go back to the end of the 50’s……I’m writing about view of America to ex-patriate’s eyes. I got on the subject when I was talking to an editor in New York Every time I go back there it just appalls me how….

A:…how stupid the fucking American is?

Q: How the country is just falling apart.

A: Because they’re stupid….I always say the Americans are the stupidest bastards in the world.  And the reason why they’re stupid is they’re not immigrants no more. They’re living off the fat of the land., What American really works today? What American has the desire to work? It’s 5 o’clock and “boom.”—goodbye. And like you wrote in the book, the Japanese will sit in the office, just to show he’s putting his time in. He’s not doing anything. But the American will not even think that way. By 5 o’clock, he’s already cleaned up and washed up and he’s in his car and he’s going to go home to his wife…And his wife will browbeat him to death.

Q: Any examples of American inefficiency that struck you when you went back there?

A: Yes, many of them. Why is it that a German can hire a Pakistani and an Indian and everything else. And the Americans, they can’t hire…they can’t do it…Why is the American management so fucking poor that he doesn’t know how to put people in the right place at the right time doing the right job.And then you read about how much money they make. Goddamn it. Take Inacaca,…(Iocacca), he’s a good example….

Q: Iocacca?

A: Iocacca. He’s got a car called Chrysler.Are there any Chryslers in Tokyo?

Q: No.

Q: He’s a big company president. He makes 6 or 7 million dollars a year. They got a fucking market here. That’s  rich people.  120 million people. They’re right next door to each other. There’s no such thing as you want to sell as you want to sell in Florida you can’t sell in Seattle. There is no such thing here, you know. But he doesn’t want to bring cars here and rent them himself. What Japanese is going to sell an American product in Japan? They won’t do it. They’ll go buy a Cadillac…ten million yen. (ed. US$100,000.

Q: What’s that got to do with American inefficiency?

A: The American should come here and do his own work. But he won’t do his own work. He won’t even do his own work at home. Why do we have to live on their technology. But the true answer is…isn’t it true that America’s engineers are all wound up in NASA? Who said that one day if they discontinued NASA the American engineer would go back into consumer products and that would be the end of the Japanese?

Q: It’s more than that, I think. American society keeps turning out more lawyers than engineers. I think there are 10 engineers for every lawyer in Japan. And in the States, it’s just the opposite. 10 lawyers for every engineer. That’s because education system is so fucked up. They don’t teach hard math.

Q: Well, yes it’s true…I said they’re very stupid. But anyway….When you look at tv and I see somebody who’s a doctor or a lawyer, he’s a jew.He’s always a jew. But he’s not an engineer. But jews like to work with paper.Anyway, so…but America…how do you get a dumb dago like me to put my kid in school and be an engineer. What the fuck do I know about engineering. What background does an Italian farmer have to send his kid to the school to be an engineer? Right away they think doctor,lawyer.

Q: Well, I think that’s the responsbility of the government and the schools. Who has enough foresight to say in 20 years you’re going to need so many engineers..

A: But wouldn’t  it be better if they cut 50 per cent of the schools down in the United States? Would that be an answer? You got so many schools pushing out shit. But in Japan, you don’t have that. You got to fight to go to school. But in Japan, you don’t have that. You got to fight to go to school. And you know it when you 12-13 years old that if you want to go to college, you got to think about it at 12. Because if you don’t make college by age 18 or 19, or whatever it is, you commit suicide…So now the thing is, it goes back to baseball.. If you had a chance to be a baseball player what position would you try to go. Did anybody ever ask you that question?

Q: I’d try for pitcher.

A: That’s the answer. Because there’s 9 or 10 pitchers on a team. But there is only one catcher. So you have 9 chances to one. So it comes out to college in Japan. Where you gonna go? You can’t get in Todai/Tokyo University, because they only have so many people. You go, you’ve got to be an engineer. You gotta be electronics. Because nobody can go to the same school. But in America, everybody tries to make a junior Harvard or Junior Yale (?). Anyway, I think the education system of the United States is terrible. But, there’s many things wrong with the United States. They give away money to the welfare. Welfare to people who smuggle themselves into the United States (laugh)….it’s crazy….I hate to say this, but…you might quote me verbeten…A black broad, she shacks up with somebody, a nigger, and she gets a baby. And that’s Mr. Jones. Then, the next year, she shacks up with Mr. Smith and she gets another baby. And then the next year,she’s got another baby. She goes over to the clerk in welfare and she says, (Exaggerated black accent).,…”Hey, Irene, I got a boy by the name of Bobby Jones., I like to get welfare for my son.”  She gets welfare for her son. Because Irene is black too. The next day she goes there with the other kid, the one named Smith. And the next day she goes there with another one. You know what I’m trying to say? She gets all this welfare. The husband has no responsibility to support her. And she can care less about the husband. She only says I gotta a baby and I got a right to free food. In America.

Q: Any other examples?

A: I’d have to think about it…

Q: .(talk about dedication. CNN appearance. J. work late hours 6 days and a week and then some. Same as baseball. In U.S., you call somebody at 4 o’clock. They gone.Call them at 2:30, they haven’t come

A: How long you study Japanese?

Q: 2.5 years at Sophia.

A: Boy I sure missed the boat there. Cuz I was here so many years and I had so much free time. I had plenty of loot. But I never tried to learn Japanese.I gave up when I found out that the characters were pronounced one way in one day and a different way on another way….You know, the Japanese …isn’t the word regimentated?…And isn’t that their object in life,  regimentation? And if they gone some place they all march to the same music and the same step. And they all get there. And they’re never out of step.

I guess you could say that the Americans…if  it’s Cuban music,all the Cubans would be in step…or let’s say Italian, all the Italians would be in step. As soon as they change it to French music, they’ll balk….they’ll hem and haw around. They won’t stay in step no more….And as the country music changes so do the people. They just will not cooperate. The Japanese. Da-don, Da-don. Da-don. Da-don. They got a single minded purpose.

Q: Any other examples about inefficiency. When you go back to Hawaii, you notice things.

A: Well, Americans are very selfish, and they tend to work only to where it’s to their advantage.Their personal, private advantage. They don’t believe in Wa. …So you go to a store in Hawaii and you go there and the business is poor and they got no waitresses. I asked the girl, “Why? There’s no waitresses here, only you?” She said, “because we get 15% of the bill. And if the bills are not big enough or not many of them, why work here.” So my employees, they want to work. They stay here. They don’t get fucked, there’s no customers….You know, yesterday, just for the hell of it, I checked my numberds. I served 655 meals. All my 5 restaurants., You know how many I served here? 53.

Terrible here. Not enough 10%. And its my biggest restaurant. So now, I told the guy, I want to wipe the whole fucking place out and start all over again. I say how much. He says 50 million yen….I’m gonna upgrade this restaurant.  You not gonna eat spaghetti no more. I’m gonna put everything on the menu that’s very expensive. My average bill here is 3,000 yen.Over 3.000.(=$30.00) On my other restaurant, Chuo Rinkan, the bedtown, a 1,000 yen, I’m doing good. I serve 260 people in one day, I do 230,000 yen in income.

Can you imagine that? They don’t even do 1,000 yen each. So, it’s crazy…

But that’s an idea, the waitress thing. They will not work for you….In Japan. You try to hire a girl, she comes to your office, she looks around for the air conditioner. If you ain’t got the airconditioner, she’s not gonna work….Before it was that way. Now, everybody got airconditioner. But before, they were very choosy. Because  once they work, they don’t quit. ..They don’t say I need this week’s salary. They don’t look at this week’s salary, they look at how long they can work there. They look at what is their object in life. Whether they are picking up dishes with Chinese food, or with Italian food, they could care less….they only want to know how much I make, how long it takes me to make it….they have their plans, they’re regimentated, they all know where they’re going…An American girl will come to work for you and tomorrow she’ll quit….she doesn’t see anything. Right then and there she she says fuck it I don’t wan’t to do this. But a Japanese doesn’t take a job unless they intend to keep it. …and even if it’s a young girl, she sas, I’m gonna work here until In find somebody and get married.

(gives eg. Of Matsumoto…married cook in Yokota restaurant, She got transfer there. She had an object. She had to get next to this guy so she can get married. Went from Roppongi, to Omori, to Yokota. Took her 60 days to reach her target…so now she stays home. She don’t work no more.)

Now when you talk  about the service center in the U.S. isn’t it terrible?

Like Cadillac. A brand new Cadillac. Americans think a Cadillac is a fantastic automobile. But it’s just another car. So I bought a Cadillac. It had 2,000 miles on it and the air-conditioner went out. And I bought it down to the Cadillac office and they say because you got a gold card or something like that…I don’t know. I pay a lot of money. I don’t know what the hell it’s for. One of the directors, or what you call it, he brought my car back. And I got in and it started and the air conditioner worked fine.I went out on the road and it broke again. He charged me $150 to fix it. A brand new Cadillac with 2,000 miles on it. Can you imagine that? OK, so I paid the $150 bucks.  Doesn’t work no more,. So I called up. I said the air conditioner don’t work no more. Guy says “Bring it in.” I nsays, “Fuck you. Bring it in.”  God damn it, you know. I say the car is no damn good. I’m sorry I bought it. …OK. My wife comes to Hawaii, she says you gotta fix the air conditioners. I said, “Open the windows.” Why should I pay $150 bucks for something I should have a guarantee. So she pushed me. I went down there and I told the guy what’s wrong with this airconditioner. He say, “Oh letme check it.” And he checked it. “Ok. $65 bill…..

Q: What was wrong with it?

A: It was a loose joint in the god damn fuse box or something like that, where the connecting wire would disengage itself and hit a bump. And then engage itself when ithit another bump. And the wire was engaging and disengaging. Engaging and disengaging. The air conditioners goes “shoom.”:On & off.  So it cost me $215 fucking dollars because somebody didn’t tighten the screw up. And then they say the Japanese make better cars. Is America the land of the ripoffs or is it just my attitude. …I hope you sell this book in Japan because I don’t think Americans want to read what I’m saying.

         You know I tell you what I did. In Hawaii, my wife is always on my back. Fix. Clean the house. So I called and had the house fixed and then the guy left some paint on the windows. You know they got louvre windows there. One side is smooth. One side is corrugated or whatever you want to call it. So the guy cleaned the house. I know hen hired a kid for 75$ to do the job. I paid him $90. So I look in the bathroom, they didn’t clean the louvers….I called the guy. I told him I know you hired guy for 75%. I pay you 90. You keep 15.m That’s America. And I says, “but the paint is still on then windows.”. He says, “Oh, we can’t take the paint off because there’s no way to take then paint off. I says how about paint thinner.How about a little thing called a razor blade?.” Guy says can’tn do it. What you should do is take window out and buy new ones. Can you imagine that?…So I got pissed off. I went to the store. You know women how their razors that they shave with. I used that and I cleaned all the paint off the windows….That’s why the Japanese would beat us all day long, because they would sit there and  they would use anything in their power to clean the windows.

        Did you ever get a toenail clipped by an electric machine? You ever see that. I had that. I went to see Dr. Aksenoff. I had a bad toe. He called a French girl that was a pediatrician. And she brought out a little hand drill. With a grinder on it. She ground my nails down. Didn’t cut them ground them down. Something like that would have cleaned the window in one second.

    A million things like that.

    Anoher thing. In Hawaii. A guy named Watanabe. Owns an bowling center. Got a million dollars. He climbs my papaya tree. Takes 12 monster papayas off them. And he broken limb….You know what happened to my tree? The rain got in it. Now it’s collapsed. Laying on the ground. Big papaya tree….son of a bitch. So I’m gonna notify him what he did to my tree.

(OMURA, Etc.)

Q: Let’s go back to Nagasaki. Omura. What kind of johns did you guys have when you went there.

A: Oh my god. What a question….Gee I can’t remember, I guess we had 1-2-3 trenches. Outhouse. Military style latrines. Can’t  remember that far back.

Q: The “geisha house” didn’t have the Japanese style ‘benjo?” or toilet. ..”Kumitoriya-san.

A: (Yeah it did) You know that Japanese shithouse  (hole in floor, night soil collects under house)….kids fall in a die. You know that. I hate to think of  it. ..Now, when I built a house in Hokkaido, I put a flush toilet in it. Everybody thought I was crazy. What do you want to put a flush toilet in. Imagine that. A western style house with a Japanese style shit house. The stink would never get out of the house. Especially in the winter,.. Japanese you know they have a phobia about keeping the windows closed. Japanese you know are not much smarter than the fucking Americans, but you know, it’s like I told Mitsubishi, you got so many dumb son of a bitches in your organization that you have to succeed. Nobody can fail out of thosands of bastards.

Q: Did the “geisha” screw any differently than you expected?

A: Oh, I think everybody fucks the same all over the world….But you know when you’re in a whorehouse like that you don’t try to please the girl. The girl tries to please you. It’s just a quick rabbit operation. The quicker you’re through, the quicker she;s free. When you’re dealing with other girls, it’s a love making process.

(lST WIFE)

Q: When you started dating the girl you married…your first wife, was there any opposition to that? People say stuff to you?

A: Oh, yes. Oh yes. You want me to tell you a cute story? I was walking with this first wife of mine down in Yokosuka. And mind you I was a well-built strong son of a bitch. And there were six or seven Japanese and they called her a “pansuke.” (whore) You don’t hear that expression very often, do you….young guys. Punks. I went right at them. It didn’t take me long to deck them. And theMP’s came. And they took me and my wife away. They said you can’t stay there. It’s too dangerous. And I say shit, dangerous my ass.

Q: That was in the town?

A: Right in Yokosuka town. Right in the streets. 

Q: How about on the American side? People say shit to you like you can’t marry a goddamn Jap.Goddamn slant-eyed.

A: Well, when I married my wife, the American military..HEILARY..or whachyoucallit

The wheels, they didn’t believe her. They came, they interview you, you know. They interview her. They say, you marrying him so you can go to the States? She says no. They say so why you marrying him. She say I want to marry him. She don’t say love…But then she says, I’m a Japanese doctor. My duty is to assist my Japanese people, medically. And I have no intention of going to the United States. You know, she never went to the United States. With all the fucking money she’s got, the last place she goes on a tour is America. She’s been all over the world, you name it. She won’t go to the States….cuz they thought she married me so she could go to the States. A ticket to the United States. She never forgot it….But you know things like that make the Japanese anti-American….

          My son is anti-American. Jesus. But like I say by the time you publish this book there will be a lot of stories about individuals who have been harassed by Japanese….

          But today’s Americans are not the mean nasty type like I used to be. Give me some shit and l’ll knock you on your ass. Today, they have become Japanese-Japanese,where they’ll sit there and negotiate and talk. Like when I went to Hokkaido, this fucking Japanese says “kaette.”..or whatever that fucking word is….I told that to a friend (Simonetti?)  and he says “If some Japanese ever said that to me, I’d kill him. I’d tear him apart.” But he’s 65 years old…But today’s kids they come here and work in the stockmarket, in a shirt and tie.They wouldn’t dare lift a hand against the Japanese. The Japanese could insult them all day long….You know it, you hear it, you speak Japanese….I hear it. I ignore 90% of it, you know….How many times the Japanese stand in front of my car when I’m trying to drive. This is Japan and I’m a Japanese. Many times, right here in Roppongi. That arrogancie is gonna pay back. They’re gonna pay that price for that. They’re not humbled.

Q: Back in the postwar era did people try to dissuade you from marrying a Japanese?

Your friends?

A: No, in those days. 1945, 46, 47. If you were lucky you go with a Japanese. Cuz they had American broads. They used to call the Kaijo Hotel. The old joke used to go, “I hear they’re going to close the Kaijo Hotel.” You say why? And the answer is “Because it’s full of cracks.” And cracks is a woman. It was a woman’s billet and it was full of cracks. But nobody would go with an American service girl. They were mean, ugly tough son of a bitches. The Japanese were dainty, sweet….But like you, your own history, if  your wife was like an American tough broad, would you marry her?

Q: There wasn’t a law against marrying a Japanese in the beginning?

A: No, not exactly a law. You had to get their permission. So, you know like when I went to the American Embassy…now that had to be, my first son was born in 1948….So I imagine I got married in 1947. He was born in  May. So if you go back 9 months or so, that’s when I probably got married….The script that CBS has got probably says that. But ifyou say Why didn’t you get married before that? There could have been something that stopped you from getting married. There could have been because everybody got married about the same time. I asked the CBS guy was I the only guy that got married? Was I the first guy to get married? He said No. So there must have been other people that got married ahead of me, but how many…a couple of days?

Q: So you had the right to take your wife to the States if you wanted?

A: Of course.

Q: Your wife became an automatic citizen.

A: Well, I don’t know if they become an automatic citizen, but they had the automatic right to go to the States.

Q: There was some law against Japanese then. I can’t remember what it was. (Note: The Oriental Exclusion Act). You could get married…../It was right after the war in then 40’s sometime. You could get married to them, but you couldn’t bring them back to then States. You couldn’t bring them in the country physically.

A: Probably. It would make commonsense, because I got deported in 1950. And I didn’t bring my wife back. Of course, we owned our own house down in Kugenuma at Fujisawa.

Q: Nobody in the States said, “You idiot,” you know?

A: Oh well…

Q: I mean I got that when I got married.

A: Of course, but you’re not gonna talk to me like that. I was a mean mother fucker. You couldn’t say that to me. Jesus Christ, you know. You know my answer would be: “Hey, there were no girls in those fighter planes that bombed Pearl Harbor. We didn’t fight the women  of Japan, we fought the Japanese army….Only in the French Army half the army is men. The other half are queers…(laugh). That’s a joke….Rossi and Allen asked that question. How many men in the French Army? The guy says half. ..So  I think in the beginning, we were pro-Japanese women who were anti-Japanese men. But I don’t even remember men. I remember kids. But the men  kept a very very low profile. He was harboring hate…..Didn ‘t I read that the other day that said that guy is a product of the war or something like that…Japanese judges were the type that were hurt when the war ended and they lost.

What other questions you got?

(FIRST RESTAURANT)

Q: Let’s go back to when you got out of jail…you’d had that fight at the police station; you’d split up with your girl. And you were broke and you were looking around for something to do. Is that how the famous Nicola pizza house was born? 

A: No, Nicola pizza house was born because in  jail you get bread and water. And you are hungry. And you think about all the nice things you like to eat like spaghetti. Pizza was not a big thing in those days. And when I got out of jail, a Korean  friend of mine, a Korean of all people, allowed me to stay at his house and fed me. How about that? A Korean? Not a Japanese. Mr. Kaneko. Then I got involved with the New York Hotel. And that was Korean owned too….that was during in the beginning of the Korean War.

Q: When did you get out of jail.

A: 1956. I got arrested about 25^th of January. The crime was committed on the 15^th. So 

they put me in jail about the end of the month. I stayed in jail about 28 days or 38 days. 48 days or some shit like that. Because they arrested Shattuck. They thought he had the diamonds. They let me go…..MacFarland said he thought he gave him the diamonds….But you know it’s a ridiculous thing. In the States they wouldn’t put you in jail because somebody else says I gave him the diamonds. You know, they’d want more proof  than your word….But you know, the Japanese have an expression: “You two rats came out of the same hole.” So you’re both no fucking good.

But Shattuck was 100% innocent. I got up on the witness stand for him and said ‘he’s innocent.” But it’s dangerous for me to say that because it looks like I’m the guilty one and he’s not. You know. But they still deported him. Kicked him out of the country. Wouldn’t let him come back. Shattuck was the first guy to take over the Latin Quarter. In the Hotel New Japan. The Latin Quarter that’s built that. Shattuck built that thing.Al Shattuck. He was a CID man.

Q: Ok. Now so you stayed at a Korean ‘s house. What happened?

A: Well,  he was in the pachinko business. He took care of me, but I had to make a living. The only thing I can do…what can I do. I can only cook. What other thing can I do. I can’t get a job in Japan. Americans won’t give you a job. I can’t speak the language. I had no professional skills. So the only thing I could think of doing was make a small restaurant. Because when you’re in jail, you’re hungry, and you only think about food. So, I decided to make a restaurant. But in those days, I was a member of the American Legion. And the American Legion office is where Dr. Aksenoff is today. The International Clinic. That used to be the American Legion club. And that’s owned by a Russian. But, of course, America was pro-Russian in those days…(ed. Huh?)…So I used to look out the window and I would see this tailor Wu. And I figured out that that would be a good place to get to make a restaurant. And I went there with that object and I got the place. I told you I had to pay the rent every single day. I conned the Chinese into moving upstairs and I’ll build a second floor for him.

Q: You had to pay the rent every single day?

A: I had no money. The guy wouldn’t give me the keys to open the front door unless I gave him the rent for a day. The first month I grossed 75,000 yen and I didn’t lose any money.

Q: Where’d you get the money to open the place?

A: I went around to certain people. I can’t remember who they are and asked them to lend me 100,000 yen. And I picked up I think 700,000 yen which was a lot of money in those days. And that 700,000 yen got me to move into the place. Fix the place. And I made a restaurant. And in a very short time I gave everybody an average of about 15% a year on their loan to me. And I paid everybody off. The only son  of a bitch who wouldn’t loan me any money was a guy named Warren J. Delvecchio. He’s dead now, the son of a bitch. But this guy was a corporal in the Marines when I was down in Opama. And he asked me to get him discharged. So I discharged him. He went up to GHQ. He was a chemical engineer. And he was a GS-7. And I was a GS-2 or 3, by that time.  And he looked at me and he said, “I’m a 7.” And then when I went to Delvecchio, I said, “Warren, lend me some money.” He had a job with …what god damned company…He had a good job as a chemical engineer. And he was in  ESS. Economic Scientific….something like that. And he says “Lend you a 100,000. I can buy you for a 100,000.” My buddy. The guy I got discharged with. The Italian.

So I made my restaurant and  I made a lot of money and I paid back everybody. It took me two years to go out. Imagine that. I worked every single day for 2 years. And I slept in the restaurant for 2 years. On the tables and chairs. 

Q: You didn’t have an apartment?

A: I had an apartment  that Joe Dibello let me use but there was no electricity in it. So I had to use candles. But most of my nights were spent in then fucking restaurant, cuz I was half drunk, tired. I used totake 13 yen baths. Go to a public bath house and take 13 yen baths.

Q: What kind of apartment did you have?

A: Well, it was a Turkish Bath House. You know the old style Turkish Bath. I don’t know what they got today. And it was in Atago-cho down the street. And the reason it had no electricity is because they had these tremendous meters. What do you call them? They put them on telephone poles. What do you call those things? This was had like 50 kilos or 100 kilos. Just the charge with not even using electricity was fantastic. So all the electricity was cut off. So I had gas.

(YOSHIKO)

And I remember…then first time…Did I ever tell you I committed suicide. …Anyway, I was in love with this girl in Meguro , and put her father in the pachinko business. Name was Takaishi….She was my girl  friend and my wife wouldnot give me a divorce. She said “Catholics should not get divorced.” You know, all of a sudden they become pro-Catholic. She was so fucking anti-white that it was ridiculous. But anyway, so I had this girl in my apartment, this place that I was living in. And she didn’t want to be with me non more. She wanted a separation. And I said “If you separate I’m gonna commit suicide.” I’m gonna kill myself. So I had a pill called BUROBADIN..A sleeping pill. And I had a 100 in the bottle. And she sat there and Isaid “If you don ‘t come back to me I’m gonna commit suicide.” So she challenged me. So I took 100 sleeping pills. But I didn’t die. As a matter of fact, nothing. So I said chotto matte and I went outside and I bought another 100 and I brought them back. And I took the second 100. You know how much power 200 pills are?  And she was not impressed. She says, “When are you going to die?” How do you like that? When  are you gonna die?” Her name now is Yoshiko Okada. She probably speaks French now. I says “Well, I don’t know. I took 200 pills and I’m not dead. And I’m not even down on the floor. I’m not even out. My mind was gone. So I says OK. I opened the closet and I took a bottle of Seagram’s VO..or what is it…Canadian club. And I chug-a-lugged the bottle. You know anybody who can chug a lug a bottle of whiskey? A full fifth? And I chugalluged it. I just drank it down the hatch. Well that saved my life you know. So, Joe Dibello came. She says, “Oh, he took some sleeping pills. But he’s full of shit and this that and then other thing.””And she opened the bottle. The second bottle she opened. The pills. I said, see, it’s closed. You open it.

(Q: How did the whiskey save your life?

A: I’ll explain.)

(To TAPE 3)