(TAPE 3) Nicola Interview 8/28/89
SIDE A (OOO)
A: The sleeping pills will kill you because they slow down your body functions. I don’t know how you would say it properly…and whiskey increases your body functions. One is a minus and one is a plus. So I didn’t die. Now if you take anyone of them, you die. You need only 200 pills to die. But once you fall asleep, you’re not gonna wake up anymore. And whiskey, you drink a whole bottle of whiskey in one shot, it has to kill you.
Q: What did this room look like (the place you shared with Yoshiko).
A: It was a western style room. It was on the 2nd floor. It was living quarters. It had a private staircase going upstairs. So anyway, then, when I got up the next morning, I went downstairs. And I’m still gone. And I had a 7 cylinder Ford. Did you ever hear of a 7-cylinder Ford? One of the pistons broke. We just took the head out and took the piston out and put the head back on again.
Q: You didn’t have a headache or a hangover or anything?
A: I was gone. There was no sense. So I got in the car and I started the car and I made a U-turn, to go to my girl’s house. Yoshiko’s house. So I get down to Atago-cho here. And a car was parked here and I hit the car. But that didn’t bother me. I backed up and kept going down the road. Then there was a guy on a bicycle in front of me.And I blew the horn and he didn’t get out of the way so it didn’t bother me. I hit him. He went flying over the fucking car. And by that time, of course, the police got me. But I was lucky. You see, I hit a Korean. And the police didn’t give a shit who I hit. It’s a Korean. Forget about it. So I wound up in the goddamn Atago police station, where my friend Mr. Mogami—he’s still my friend, by the way; he’s in the JCIA. His linguistic ability is perfect. But anyway, better English than I have.But anyway, they brought me into the Atago Police Station. Of course, I was incoherent. Is that the word?
(esplains where Atago Police Station is.)
Anyway, I was there and they went to my apartment and they found the empty whiskey bottle. They found the two empty bottles of sleeping pills. So I was declared incompetent of anything. I was not myself, period. So the they took me over to the 361st Army Hospital, which is in Sumidagawa somewhere. Then they proceeded to pump out everything. But Mr. Mogami was with me. And the American Embassy, those dirty bastards, came around with a piece of paper and they asked me to sign it. And Mogami, like I said, his English is perfect, Reading, writing is perfect. He tells me how to spell words, for Chrissaske. But anyway, he looked at it and he says to me, don’t sign it. I says ok, you say don’t sign it, don’t sign it. And I didn’t sign it. You know what it was? It was a waiver of my rights. If I had a signed that paper, I would have gave the American Embassy the right to do anything they want with me. And that means I would have got kicked out of Japan instantly. But I didn’t sign it. So, by the end of then evening, I was released from the hospital, they pumped my stomach out. They knew what I took. They knew the countermeasures to take. So, that night, I went to Meguro, and, of course, being me, I don’t know how many people I punched. And I wound up in the Osaki police station again. But, of course, they let me go because they still considered me incompetent of knowing what is right and what is wrong.
Q: Got in a fight at a bar?
A: I got in a fight at the girl’s house. I put them in the pachinko business for Christs Sakes. And, they have all these kids working in the pachinko place, and I’m angry, and you know, like…(gropes for words) somebody who could sit there and watch you take sleeping pills and kill yourself. What the fuck kind of people is that, you know?
Q: You fought w/ the pachinko parlor workers?
A: Yeah. All of them. I beat the shit out of them. 7-8-9 of them. And of course I got arrested again. Sort of. This time I’m in the Osaki police station. And this time I called Mr. Noguchi. And his father was in the 2-2-6 deal. You know that? (Attempted military coup in 1936.)…So I called him up and they came down and got me out. No trouble. Nick’s crazy and he’s he got this whiskey in him and he’s got some pills in him. And he’s gone and all that shit. So they released me. And that was the end of that girl.
Q: Mr…
A: Noguchi. His father was the lightweight champion of the world. Or the lightweight champion of Japan or something like that. But he looks like a fighter. You know. His nose is punched in. And his trademark is the face of a lion, because boy, he looked like was a lion. Everybody beat up on him. But he was in that group…Kodama (Yoshio Kodama).You know, the ultra-nationalists. They still associate the …I used to sit there many times in Meguro, watching this guy pay money out to all the yakuza. The DAI-NIPPON YAKUZA. They’d line and there’d be hundreds of them. They gave one a thousand yen or two thousand yen. He was the paymaster.And he didn ‘t have a dime in his own pocket. Can you imagine giving out millions of fucking yen….and he had no money.
Q: Why was he giving them money?
A: Because he was then paymaster for the DAINIPPON group.
Q: DAI-NIPPON was the name of the gang?
A: Ultranationalists. Whatddya you call them,
Q: There’s a fine line there.
A: They’re not gangsters. They’re ultranationalists. They’re the guys that are running around in trucks here with the loudspeakers. They’re not yakuza…..Every month he’d pay them off. Even a thousand yen in those days was big money….They’re were not gangsters….They stand there and bow and kiss the money. And Domo Arigato. And the next guy and the next guy and the next guy. They used to do it every month. I’ve seen them do it many times. He was a real Japanese samurai, you might call it. He would drink and he wouldn’t let his wife in the same room with him. Women were not allowed to be in the same room where he was. We used to drink fucking whiskey and I had to run home—I lived in Meguro the with that girl—I had to run home before the whiskey caught up to me. Because if not, I’d never get home. You know, drink a couple of bottles of booze straight down the hatch.
Q: How old was he then ?
A: That would be very close to 1951 or 1952. No that would be in 1953 or 1954.
And I’d say that…he went to China in 1936…so he must have been about 45-50 years old. The guy who was in the 2-2-6. They all got exiled to China. And, of course, they became, what do you call it, …then word is dog, what’s the dog…You know the guy who goes out and procure things. All the military had a dog something. You know like you’re a general. You got a captain. He’s a dog. They got a word for it.
He was out getting girls for you and this or that. What do you call it? He’s like a servant to the general.
Q: Noguchi was a boxer?
A: Noguchi was a boxer. So he had to be a boxer in 1933, 1932, I guess you can check that very easily.
Q: So you were friends with him and the son. Both.
A: Well, his son was just about…he’s about 50 years old now. This would be 30 years ago. The son was going to Meiji University. I remember the kid. He was named Osamu, ne. Osamu Noguchi. He got in kick boxing. I made a lot of money in kick boxing. He used to carry a switchblade in his sock. The son of a bitch had a six-inch blade, seven inch blade in his sock. It was a fucking big knife. And he’s a little shit. He weighed 110 pounds when he got caught in the rain with heavy clothes on. The son. He was born in Japan, but his other brother was born in China. Kyobo.
Q: How long did you go with Yoshiko?
A: I went with her when I was in Sembikiya…It probably started in 1953 or 1954. 1952? In that neighborhood. And the end was 1956. About 3 years. She was a beautiful girl. Well-built. Intelligent. You name it. They don’t make girls like that any more. But I guess when you’re in love, everything looks great.
Q: Why did your first wife marry you?
A: Me? Ah, because Americans had a lot of money.My attraction was she spoke English.Her attraction was, I had money. You know if those days…360 yen to the dollar-…And I was probably making $6,000-$7,000 a year?…(As a GS-7 in 1949-1950) )That’s 2.5 million yen a year. When people were living on 100 yen a day if they were lucky….They had 2-5-4. You know the word? 254? It means they would go outside the labor office and beg to get a job. If they got job that day as a ditchdigger, anything, they would get 254 yen. That was the rate of of pay for day laborers. It’s a very famous expression. 254. So if I made 200,000 yen a month. Jesus Christ, you know how much money that is? That’s a thousand days of labor.
Q: Did you cook all the stuff yourself?
A: Oh, yeah. I was the cook, the KP, the bottlewasher, the bartender, Everything. Every single thing I did I did myself….(eyes pretty girl walking into restaurant)…Ohhh, wonderful!
Q: Did you have any waiters or anything?
A: Well, I only had 6 tables. And the woman I married was my first waitress. My first cashier. You know, the one I got now. She came to work about 2-3 weeks after I opened.
…My 2nd and 4th wife. The one who’s got everything now.(laugh)
Q: When was this that you opened Nicolas?
A: August 1, 1956.
Q: So between Jan and Aug of 1956, you got arrested, went to jail, broke up with Yoshiko, tried to commit suicide, met wife #2, married her and opened a restaurant.
A: I didn’t marry her in 1956. Because the first wife wouldn’t give me a divorce. So I married her later. Probably Showa 40. (1965). Listen, I opened the restaurant in Showa 30. That’s 1956. (author’s note. He means Showa 31). And there…I got divorced from my first wife somewhere after that. So I might have got divorced….One time I had the dates all written down. In one of my telephone books somewhere. All the dates written down. When I got married. When I got divorced. When I got married. When I got divorced. But I did all those things in a six-month period. More. 8 months. 9 months…..
Q:So you got an divorce in 1956-1957?
A: No, probably later than that because she wouldn’t give me a divorce. But then I went to jail for robbery. Wait a minute. I think I must of got a divorce…one of these days I’ll have to look in one of the books to see which day I got a divorce. The American Embassy has got the information of course.
Q: She wouldn’t give you a divorce until you went to jail?
A: Then she lost face. But I made headlines. Nobody steals from the Imperial Hotel without their name and pictures in the paper. Jesus Christ. …Probably on tv and everything else. As I remember I was in Kosuge Prison. And they started speaking Japanese. My Japanese stinks, but I can understand 90% of it. And I can hear this fucking loudspeaker talking about the Imperial Hotel Robbery. So I went up on the fucking thing and I tore the speaker off. I broke in to fucking…Who needs that fucking thing….Who needs to be reminded why you’re in the fucking…and I’m in solitary confinement.
One man cell. It was a miserable, miserable place. But then again, that’s what prisons are supposed to be like. There are no country clubs in Japan you know.
Q: It was tatami you were sleeping on, right?
A: In prison, I was sleeping on a bed.
Q: Tatami on the floor?
A: Wooden floor. Concrete probably. But they had a bed. And they had the toilet seat, covered. And that became your seat. And then they had a sink that was covered. And that became a writing table.
Q: Did you have any heat?
A: I don ‘t think they had heat in those fucking places because I stayed with my clothes on 90% of the time. I don’t think I ever went to bed with taking clothes off. That would be impossible. But that’s when they gave me a book to read. Lincoln Stephens. That son-of-a-bitch.
Q: You take a bath once week. And everybody goes down to the same ofuro. But I wasn’t in prison…I was only there a few days.3-4-5 days probably. (author’s note. Z moved to Detention Center, closer to police headquarters, for interrogation.)
Q: Japanese style bath?
A: Yeah.
Q: The guards give you a hard time. They push you around?
A: No. Generally speaking, the guards are not bad people. Anyway, I found that in the Marunouchi Police Station and the Keishicho (Police Central). The guards would say
To you, if don’t feel like answering any questions, just say you don’t feel good and we will not let you go. They had control over who goes in and who goes out. But once you go outside…the interrogators, they’re mean bastards…. I had a police sergeant named Nagata. I’ll never forget that cocksucker. And I used to sit there with my fingernails trying to cut the wires. Because the room was all wired up. And I was fooling around with the table and I found wires and…I’ll cut them you know. And I tried like mad to cut them with my fingernails. But I don’t know if I succeeded….Nagata was at the Marunouchi Police Station. He was an ugly son of a bitch. He looked like death warmed over…..yeah, I got free room and board….looked like death warmed over. Skullybones and skin. And I used to tell him that you’re an ugly son of a bitch. “Anata Obake.” But he couldn’t do much about it because if he tried to get tough, I could beat him up…And you know in those days, they used to puff cigarette smoke in my face all day long. And I used to breathe it in…like as if I can smoke. And then once day they brought me up on the roof and they offered me a cigarette, one of the interrogators and I said I don’t smoke. And they almost shit.
Q: And so they would interrogate you everyday?
A: Hours. And hours. And hours.
Q: And they never hit you?
A: No, they couldn ‘t. I was too big.
Q: Slammed the table.
A: Oh yea. They’d do anything. But they couldn’t touch you. See. They never know when Greenberg the lawyer would come. Or the America Embassy man would come.And if I got physical marks on me that they hit, you know….But they would hit Japanese, you know.
Q: How many days were you interrogated in a row?
A: I think I had 28 days on bread and water. Interrogated every day. Until they arrested Shattuck. When they arrested Shattuck, they let me go home. But there was no home to go to.The girl already cleaned the apartment out.
Q: So other foreigners got the same routine?
A: They will ask you every single thing that ….They’ve got a routine…Where you were born. What schools you went to. What’s your mother’s name. What’s your father’s name.What’s your brothers name. How old are they. They go through that whole fucking thing. And everytime they used to do that to me, I used to give them different names and different ages. And different addresses. They used to compare these fucking notes and they used to go crazy. “Yesterday, you said this.” I said, “I did?…Well, yesterday I was lying. Today I’m telling the truth.”…But the advantage of Americans I would say that I had was that I can concentrate on different things. I’d tell them about this and that. I’d give them English lessons. Any goddamn thing except answer their questions. Anything. I didn’t give a shit what I’d talk about.
Q: Did they have an interpreter? Did Nagata speak English?
A: No, they had an interpreter.
Q: Was the interpreter any good?
A: Well, I’d say…80-90% fair….You can’t…interpreters in this town…you can’t…in those days it would even be worse. …When Mogami was my interpreter, you see, he used to kick me. If they asked a question. He’d kick me and alert me to be careful of the question. And I’d answer something else. And I’d say something else…and they’d say…no,no,no…(pounds table)…like this. I wouldn’t answer their questions.
Q: How was Mogami there?
A: He was the chief of the interpreters. Now, this is an long time ago. Mogami was just an interpreter than. He became the Bucho (head), the top dog. He’s not a policeman with a uniform. He’s a civilian attached to the police department. So just by dumb luck he was there….yeah, thank god….of course, he never let anybody know that I knew him.
Q: So what would he kick you for?
A: If they ask a dangerous question. They try to ask you questions in such a way that if they could put all the answers together they…even though they look like their odds and end questions…they put it together, you’re in trouble….but then, I was not stupid. I do n‘t answer anything dangerous. …But I remember that fucking place so well (laugh). Of course, they tore then building down. You know they made a new police station here.
Q: How’d you get so big, by the way? You said you were real muscular?
A: I started eating.
Q: You didn’t lift weights?
A: Oh, I used to do that. I even was a pro-wrestler for one or two days. I’d do anything to make a buck in those days. But I ate a lot.
Q: You were a pro-wrestler?
A: For one or two days.
Q: Who’d you fight?
A: Japanese. But it’s all fixed. Those days. I was not very good at it because I was with MacFarland. MacFarland was a big mother fucker. Oh, before I opened the restaurant. This would be 1953. 1954. 1955.
Q: It was fixed. They’d tell you you have to lose.
A: No, there was no such thing as win and lose. You know the guy grabs you one way and you do this and you get out and you know.And you know, it was all rehearsed. How you do this and how you do that. No, of course, it was a different world. In those days there was no pro wrestlers.
Q: You rehearsed it before hand?
A: Oh yeah,..course I was not a professional sportsman to that effect. It’s just that I was 200 and some odd pounds. MacFarland even got in the sumo ring. And I think he won the first one and lost the next two.
Q: Against who?
A: I don’t know. You’d have to look it up. But that would be before 1956…before we stole the diamonds…before he stole the diamonds.
(discussion of technique of putting the book in chronological order and historical context)
A: Yeah, those were great days. When I was in the restaurant business I was king of the fucking hill.
Q: It sounds like you had a great time.
A: Well, every night, I never went to sleep unless I had one or two broads. …Ah buddy. That was the days.
Q: Every night you went out with a different woman. You were dating your first wife then?
A: No. I was married. I was living with a mistress. Yoshiko. Then when I got through with her I went into the restaurant business,
Q: And wife #2 was also wife #4. Were you living with her then?
A: Oh, yeah. I live with anybody.
Q: But you were always out screwing with some women everynight?
A: Of course. Why not.
Q: What’s your wife’s name?
A: Yae. Be careful. She reads English. I got to be very careful what I write until I’m secured. Or dead. (laugh)
Q: Tell me about the wild nights of …
A: Well, I tell you. You want to hear sex stories? …You know I told you about what I did with Rolando Sessi. He was the Italian opera singer. I brought him into the Copacabana bar. And I taught him how to say hello in English….You know he only “parle Italian.”…So he reached over to then first guy, shook hands and says, “Fuck you.” And he went to the second guy at the bar, shook hands and says “Fuck you.” And he did the whole fucking bar like that….Can you image that . The Copacabana bar must have sat 20-30 people. He went right down the bar and says “Fuck you” to everybody. And they just didn’t know what to say.
Q: He’s talking to gaijin?
A: All Americans.. You know. They..not Americans../a lot of Jews and all that shit…Foreigners. There were no Japanese in the Copacabana in those days. The only Japanesen if they can afford it are the extremely rich…and the foreigners. That’s the Copa.
Q: Tell me some sex stories.
A: Yeah, let me tell you a cute story. I was in the Copacabana one day. And this guy Mike Dinaioff was there. And the bartender would always introduce me to the new girls. Because I’m tired of screwing then old ones. So he calls one girl. She comes over to me. I said hello, how are you, what’s your name and so and so. And the next thing I says was we going to go to bed to tonight and fuck? And she says “yes.” No love. No bottle. No glass. Nothing. And Mike Dinaioff, he’s sitting there and he says, “you don’t want to sleep with him. I’m better than he is.” And she says, “He asked me first” (laugh) Then of course, we proceeded to drink and she’s gone; she’s working as a hostess. And the end of the night she comes over and she says, let’s go home. So I said, OK. We get in my car and drive someplace. I don’t know where the fuck I am, you know. And it’s February, it’s a cold mother fucker and I went to this girl’s apartment. And the first thing she insists on is that you take all your clothes on, Nude in February. In a Japanese house. With no fucking heat. (and no insulation) How do you like that for balls? Of course, I played the game. I took my clothes off. She took her clothes off. Then she says, “You like martinis?” You know what that girl did? She got a big fucking mixing bowl. She put ice in it. She poured about a shot of gin in it. Or vermouth. Then she shook it up, poured it out and put gin in it. Let me tell you that makes a martini. And we had that martini. Meantime, she’s making the ofuro. Then she says its ready to take a bath. Now, I am nude. Cold. With a cold martini in me. You know nothing warm. Nothing warm. They don’t know what warm is. I go into this fucking bathtub and as damned as I live, I’ll never forget it. A skinny fucking room with a light hanging down. You know the swinging lights, a regular (uncovered) light bulb. A wooden bath way off in the corner. Must have been about 6 feet wide. And maybe 12-15 feet long. A skinny long thing like that. I didn’t even think it was six feet wide. At the ofuro’s at the end of it, and I get in there and jesus christ I’m cold and the first thing, you know, I’m looking at the door. I got my back to her and the ofuro. And she takes a bucket of water and hits me in the back of the back with a bucket of hot water. And here I’m freezing. Can you imagine the fucking sensation of being frozen and the hot water hits you in the back and I turn around and I’m fucking mad and I get hit right in then face with another bucket of hot water. And that believe it or not cooled me off.
I got in the bath with her. And that fucking girl. We’re not in the bath more than 5 minutes. My blood is just beginning to circulate and I’m feeling the heat. And with her educated toes—and the Japanese have got educated toes—they walk with that split toe (For geta)…(I’m getting a hard on) . And she pulled the plug out. And the fucking water started draining out of the ofuro. And the ofuro is built for one. And here I am, about 200 and some odd pounds in there with her who weighs about 100 pounds. 120 pounds. And she gets out of the ofuro very easy, because she’s a skinny girl. And here I’m stuck in the ofuro and I couldn’t get out. I had to use so much energy to get out of the ofuro—there’s no more water—in this tight, tight ofuro. And I finally got out of it. Dried up. Get in bed. And she says, “you must be tired, so why don’t you lay on the bottom.” And she proceed to climb on top of me and fuck like a mink. Then, when I through and she got through, she says “I know you are a very busy man, so why don’t you go home.” Did you ever have a girl tell you after you’re through, Go Home?
Q: Did you have to give her any money?
A: No…Of course, in those days I used to leave a lot of tips and things like that. I drink with the girls..and tell them I’ll pay the bill. And they come to my restaurant and eat free, anyway, you know. And then, there was always the racket, they come over and say, “Nick-san, I’m still a hostess.” So they got a gaijin customer, they bring him over to my restaurant. And I charge 2,000 yen and hour for them sitting there. And give the girls the money. So that was a source of income for them. So they stay there 3-4-5-6- hours and it costs them 2000 yen an hour. 10,000 yen. And I used to put it on the bill. And give it to them. And sometimes I’d give them the whole fucking bill. Who gives a shit?
(repeat of above)
I’d over and say “Hello, how are you? Because I’m a bullshit artist. And the longer I stay there, the more their hostage charge goes up.
So if they were getting a 1,000 yen or 2,000 yen per hour, it used to go on the bill….and then when the guy paid the bill.Which is always cash you know. Sometimes I give then girl the whole bill. Don’t give a shit what it is. Just give them the money. So, I was always welcomed in any club.Because I was a source of money for them. I never paid for sex. There’s other ways of paying, you know.
Q: Wait a minute. Then girls would take their gaijin customers out of the club. And the guy would have to pay for their time. The hostess submit a bill at the end of the evening?
A: Well, it’s a word of mouth, you see. :If I go out with you than I have to charge you 2,000 yen a hour and I have to give it to the Mama-san.
Q: And so the guy pays at the end of the evening.
A: If the restaurant bill is 5,000 yen and her bill is 10,000 yen, he’d have to pay 15,000. And the girls were always very cooperative that way. They enjoyed it. And the guy paid money and they shacked up, you know. Why not, she made 10,000-15,000 yen/. And he shacks up with her. You know the story about Sinatra and Cathy?
You know Cathy?
Q: No.
A: What’s her name. She’s in LA. She was a Tachikawa whore but you got to be very careful how you write that.
Q: Japanese?
A: Japanese girl. Very, very good looking. She became a pro-bowler. She’s living in LA some place….(garbled)…for Tats Nagashima, who used to be the Latin Quarter manager or something. Anyway, Sinatra paid $5,000 for her to go to bed with him. Imagine that?
So the next time he came in town
Q: She worked at the Copa.
A: Copa yeah. So the next time he came in town he thought he had the …he was rodneyed by the rail…how would you say it, he was in first place? She sort of told him, you know, that yesterday is yesterday and today is today. Nothing is free. He says “I paid you $5,000 before.” So she says, “Just a moment.” She went up to Mama Cherry…she’s the Copacabana owner…She borrowed $5,000. She came back and she threw it in his fucking face, in the middle of the club, in front of every Tom, Dick and Harry. That’s a broad baby.
Q: Is the Copa still there?
A: No. (Discussion about whether it is still there or not follows. Conclusion: It isn’t. Description of where it used to be also ensues….kitty corner from Hotel New Japan, on side street.)
Q: How many women were there at the Copacabana?
A: Ohhh, probably a hundred.
Q: What was the other big club? The Mikado?
A: Benibasha.
Q: Latin Quarter. How many women.
A: Again you’re talking a hundred. Benibasha probably had more than a hundred women.
Q: How about Mikado?
A: That was before Mikado time….The Mikado was so much girls, it was more abbeku (avec..couples place)
Q: No, it was all hostesses. Just like the Copa (only with a 1,000 hostesses). They had huge floor shows.
A: Yeah. Another one was Gessekai. Cuz I used to go there and I really enjoyed that place. That’s when Bruno and Mario had a band there. The two Italians? And their niece was the girl, the Italian girl that’s in Tokyo now that sings.
Q: How would you go? I thought your restaurant was open until four. How would you have time?
A: I didn’t stay in the restaurant. I used to enjoy life. You find me in my restaurant, you’re lucky.
Q: After it got going you were out on the town?
A: Everyday out. Enjoying life. I used to go with the TYPHOON KIDS. Ginza Machii and Rikidozan…
Q: You know Richard Beyer. The Destroyer. (Popular pro-wrestler in Japan)
A: …lived in the same apartment.
Q: Who’s Ginza Machii?
A: Boss of the Tosei-kai gang. He was the gang boss of Tokyo. You know the Caravansary. (deluxe million dollar Persian Restaurant.) Over here in the TSK.CCC. Of course, he’s calmed down. I think he’s got a bad heart. Anyone of these days you’ll read about his death.
Q: You think any of these guys would talk to me like your talking to me for this book?
A: You mean about me?
Q: About this whole era.
A: Oh, shit. Who would talk to you. Well, Frank Nomura’s got a lot of anecdotes. He knows what happened….But not many people had a colorful life. I was one of the very view because money was coming my way like it was going out of style.
Q: Are you surprised it was so successful?
A: I didn’t know what to do with the money. I used to fill my drawers at home with money. Can you imagine that? I didn’t know what to do with all the fucking money I was making. Of course, I used to steal it. I was the only guy that had lost money and bought a new home and a Cadillac and a yacht. And my balance sheet showed I was losing money. But I tell you I paid the price. They got it all back. I’d be worth a billion dollars today if they didn‘t take my properties. Fucked me all up like they did. But then, they they can take your property. They can take your money. But they can’t take your memories. And I’m proud enough to say I must have fucked 3,000 different women in this country….
(laugh) And then when I stayed at the Yaesu hotel, this guy Pancho Parsons.Pancho’s now retired, living in King City California, which is near Fort Ord. We were driving down the street in Yaesu area near Tokyo Station and he’s driving along or I’m driving and we’re fucking girls in the back seat in a convertible with the convertible down. Can you imagine that fucking shit? Those were the wild days, yo.
Q: What was this guy’s name?
A: Pancho Parsons. Captain Parsons. He was an investigator with me. (note; at CPC)
Oh, there’s a million stories about that. Those were great days….One day we tried to d steal all the silver. Silver blocks. There must have been tons of it. I know a guy named Sam Miyata. Sam Miyata had something to do with that Joe DiBello place at Atago-cho. But he had a Japanese PT boat that when it was not running the nose was underneath the water….when it ran, it rose up..Then one day up in Mito, (up in Ibaragi Prefecture, site of Hitachi Factory) we went to some factory. And the by-product was silver. And they had all these concrete blocks outside painted black. Stacked up in the middle of the place. Of course, he (Pancho) was doing the investigation. I was just going along for the ride.And I touched the blocks. And you would think a block was rough. Ne? But this block was smooth. It fascinated me. I never seen a smooth block. It was painted black. It was smooth. And the question was why would you paint a concrete block black? What was the reason? Well, it was silver. Then we decided…I told Pancho, hey, that son of a bitchn block…they’re all silver. You know. He says, “Let’s steal them.” I says, “Yeah, let’s get a …confiscate that…” And the we made the plan , getting trucks and go up there. Sam Miyata was gonna have his boat. We were going to take it to the Mito harbor. And he’s put them in his boat and it would disappear. And I’ll be a son of a bitch, the day before the CIA called us up, or the CID, or whatever you want to call it, I don’t think it was the CID…OSI, whatever, those days…before the CIA. And they said, “We know all about the silver up there, don ‘t touch it.” And so that was the end of our plan. I don’t know how the hell they found out. Son of a bitch. Because we would have stole all that fucking …cuz we had the pass. We could confiscate anything we want. We were representatives of SCAP. Powerful pass, yo.
Q: You said you pulled a gun on a guy one time? Was that during this era?
A: He pulled a gun on me.
Q: A guy pulled a gun on you. When was this?
A: This was in…ohhh…I was still in that old restaurant. So it would have to be before 1964. And that’s when Killer Austin came to Japan. Pro-wrestler. And I was in the bar drinking with Bobbie Williams or Jackie Wilson. They’re black. Bobbie Williams is still alive. Jackie Wilson died. Bobbie Williams lives in the LA area. And I was drinking at the bar with ‘em when Killer Austin comes in with 5 gangsters. And the waiter says they want you to sit down with them and drink. And I was pretty well already drunk. And I says, “I don ‘t sit with gangsters.” You know. (laugh) That’s a fucking dangerous thing to say, in this town, you know. Because in those days they were not so much called yakuza, they were called gangsters. Now, of course, everybody calls them yakuza. So Bobby Williams or Jackie Wilson, I don’t know which one it was, decided that the better part of everything is for him to leave. So he left. And I was there with Kenny Pearce. And so I decided I’m gonna go out. And while I was trying to go out, Killer Austin got in front of me. And that restaurant was cute because it had 6 tables and then it had a passageway that went in and out. So I went down the passageway and Killer Austin came in front of me. 5 gangsters behind me. So here I’m in a 3-foot area, with a big mother fucker in front of me and five guys behind me. So I decided that was only one way to get out of this mess and that was just swing. Start fighting. So I hit Killer Austin. That was the end of him. Then I turned around and attacked the five gangsters. And the nearest one, you know, they can’t get more than one in the fucking alleyway, because there’s a small 3-foot alleyway between tables and the wall. And I knocked down Ikeda. But I don’t recommend you write his name. (author’s note: Yae says Ikeda is now in prison ). Cause he’s still alive. He’s a dangerous man, by the way. But anyway, so I knocked him down and stepped on his fucking throat and sez you know, “Give me any shit and I’ll tear your throat out.” So they begged for mercy and this that and the other thing. So I says OK, I got in the car. Kenny Pearce drives the car. I say, “Comon Kenny let’s go someplace and drink.” Kenny doesn ‘t drink. He’s an American Indian from Hood River in Oregon….Anyway, what happened was we drove around and we wound up in Tom’s restaurant. That was the gangland for the Roppongi area. You know, in Nogizaka. So I went in there and fucking Ikeda is throwing these icepicks into the wall. Double-edged ice picks. And he asked me if I can do it. So I got 5 or 6 of them, that he gave me and I threw them up against the wall and they went flying all over the place. And he pulled a gun and put it at my fucking head. Jeez. I got a gun at my head and Kenny Pearce gives me a fucking switchblade. So I take the switchblade and I can feel it and I get it in the right position. And I stuck it in Ikeda’s throat. And I said, “OK, we both die. I pull the trigger and I cut your fucking throat. On three. Let’s go. One-two.” And on two the blood came down on my finger and he saw the blood. He shit. And he pulled the gun down. Bullets fly you now. And he put the gun down on the counter.He put the gun on the counter and I took the knife away. By that time, every-body in Tom’s was running out then door. Jumping over tables. They were like a typhoon.
So, ok. I went out. And the fucking Chinese owner says, “You owe money for drinking.” I gave him a 5,000 yen note. And Kenny gets in the car and we drive.Killer Austin is with us. So I take Killer Austin to the goddam Dai-ichi Hotel. And when I get to the Dai-ichi Hotel, Ikeda and the four gangsters are waiting outside the front door…and I get the knife again, because it’s all I can use is the knife. I get outside and I thought there’s gonna be more trouble. Instead, Ikeda says, here’s the change from the 5,000.yen….and he left. I left too.
(8/31/89)
(discussion of Ikeda incident resumes before tape recorder is turned on)
A: I drove a new Buick Riviera.
Q: What did Killer Austin look like?
A: Oh, he was a big blond-headed fellow, But he was no monster as far as I was concerned….He could have been 6’220. …Rock hard muscle. Pro-wrestler is a pro-wrestler. He was not a flabby type….He was in 30’s…or 40’s. He was a famous wrestler at that time….
Q: What kind of temperment did he have? Did he get angry easily? Did he have a short fuse? Was he a psychopath?
A: I don’t think so. I’d say he was an extremely quiet type. Even though he was out with the worst gangsters in town, he was no Rikidozan. When you go with Riki boy, I tell you, you never know what’s gonna happen . He’ll fight the whole fucking house. Riki didn’t give a shit about anybody. Anything. Didn’t care. Killer Austin…he was easy to knock down so.
Q: You knew Rikidozan well to.
A: Who me? Oh yeah.
Q: OK. Who asked you to sit down, the gangster or Killer Austin?
A: No, the waiter had told me. Frank Nomura. He says, “Come and with with them. And I says, no. I don’t sit with gangsters. How about that. I’m out everynight with Ginza Machii the Crime Boss of Tokyo. And I say I don ‘t sit with gangsters, you know. He was a big man.
Q: Ginza Machii was the leader of what gang?
A: Tosei-kai.
Q: How old was he then?
A: Oh, Machii was my age. So if we’re talking about 1965, he was 45.44. You know where he lives don’t you? Right across the way. You’re looking right at it. The TSK.CCC Bldg. Behind the bank there. The Dai-Ichi Kangyo. And it’s across the street from the Azabu Police Station…they got a colvern…I used to live next door to that place.
Q: Have you seen him much these days?
A: I haven’t see him for 5 or 6 years. I understand he’s got a bad heart. He’s quit crime. He’s retired you know. You know he became criminal, classified as a criminal, because he was a big guy…this is the story I heard. (garbled)…and you saw the paper, Sugamo Prison over there. He lived in Sugamo and everytime the military, the nasty bastards,…they used to call Machi to help the fight the American military, because he was 6’’2”. He was a big mother. And that’s how he got into the land of muscles. Not like Clark Hatch (bodybuilding expert) . But real muscles. And from there he went into and into it and he became Boss of Tokyo. A big guy….He and I and Riki used to go out and make typhoons. Fight everyplace.
Q: Tell me some stories about Ginza Machii.
A: Well, Ginza Machii when he started out, he was shabby. He had a long fucking coat that almost touched the floor. In those days, there was no heat. Everything was cold. And like I say he got his reputation as an tough guy when he used to fight against the military. The American military. But then he was just a little…or a big hoodlum. And one day three of his henchmen—one named Matsubara, one named Imai, and one named Nakayama—
SIDE B (OOO)
…they called up the gang boss. Machii is Number Two. They called up the gang boss and says “Where do you want to die?” These three guys. And the gang boss says I want to die in the Asakusa Cemetary. So he asked him, how many are you going to bring with you. He said they’ll be three of us. And even though the guy was the boss of Tokyo and he probably could have 50 or a 100 guys with him, he brought three. So it’s three against three. And, of course, he died. Machii became the gang boss.Those three guys went to jail.
Q: This is a gun battle?
A: A gun battle. They shot it out. And those three guys went into jail as ordinary punks and they came out as captains. They had tremendous respect because they actually pulled a gun and killed somebody. But they only got a few years in jail. The police encourages that. So gives them a few years. Somebody else kills somebody else and after a while they eliminate all each other.
And many, many years later…or not so many years later…I was living over here, so I guess that was 1956 or 1957. 1958. In that area.
(Author’s note. I found a police record of a midnight gun/knife battle at a temple in Asakusa where there is a cemetary, a battle involving the Tosei-kai (with Matsubara and Nakayama mentioned) and a rival Asakusa-based gang. The Tosei-kai emerged victorious. It was a key battle for underworld control of the city. But there were others in the period 1958-1963…and there were also battles for control of the Ginza in the late 40’s and early 50’s)
I met Machii one day and like he was going from pillar to post. He was the gang boss of Tokyo but there weren’t big money in those days. And I says to him, or he says to me, “How do I make a buck? I need more money.” And I says “Well, I’m an Italian. I made an Italian restaurant. So you’re a Korean . Make a Korean restaurant.”
He says he don’t even know how to boil water.
I says, “Don’t worry about it. How many boys you got workin’ on the Ginza?”
He said “4,000.”
So I said, “You got 4,000 boys. They’ll go all over the town. And they’ll have everybody go to your restaurant whether they like it or not. And all the bar madams and the other bums that are on the Ginza, will have to go to your restaurant and eat. And sure enough they did. And he built a restaurant that was …maybe two rows of tables, that’s all. Maybe half of this room. That’s all. But it was filled every night. It had to be filled everynight. And he became very very rich. Of course, that’s just one of his assets. Then he tore down the building and built the Silk Road Club up there…(in the Ginza) And I was invited to go there. And my first drink that 30,000 yen. ($85 dollars). Jesus, can you imagine that?
It’s still there. Or rather the building is still there. On Namiki-dori. You know where Mikasa restaurant is? Near Lohmeyers, Ketels. In that area. I think it’s Namiki-dori. I can’t remember those names anymore….And he built another building there, the TSK.CCC building…. I think on the 7th on 8th floor, he built the Silk Road Club….It as one of those funny buildings. All black. Beams are sticking out. But there’s no building there. Hanging louvers I guess you’d call them. I don ‘t know what the hell they call them. But he did very good in that club. And it encouraged him to come over here (in Roppongi), where he’s got Caravansary (the million dollar club)….that’s the building, TSKCCC.
You know at one time when it was very fashionable to have beautiful restaurants, he had more than a million dollars Egyptian crafts hanging on the walls of Caravansary—which was that time, wow, that was something. It was French food. He had an Egyptian belly dancer. But he had too many gangsters around the place and that discouraged the Japanese.
Q: What was that? A club or a cabaret?
A: It was a club…..I never fooled around in there, because I lived next door….I say maybe, maybe they had girls. But it was a club, a very, very exclusive type operations. Not like what you see on the Ginza. It was very DEMOOR. Is that the word you use? Quiet. And then guy lived on the roof there. And talk about a beautiful Japanese home. He’s got a big godamn tennis court up there. Really fabulous.
(Discussion of location of Silk Road Club. Built on Namiki-dori. Same location as Korea restaurant. Original Korean restaurantn torn down. New building goes up with many clubs and restuarants. Another new building, similar in scope, built next door.)
A: He tore Korea restaurant down and built a big building. And then he moved the Korean restaurant to this Caravansary….which is an Egyptian word…But he did a very, very beautiful thing……
(repeat Machii & Rolando Sessi story.)
A: Anyway, he came to Japan with the Greek opera company, and the promoter sold all the tickets. He got all the money and ran away. He left all the foreigners stranded. So the church took them in….But they did that quite often in those days. What do you think? They going to go to the police? And the police says “You? Foreigner? Fuck you. We don’t care you got cheated.” But, of course, they cheated all the Japanese who paid for all the tickets. But those guys never got paid. They didn’t even have a trip to go home. Nothing. They came to Japan and they were stranded. So I helped one. Rolando Sessi. I brought him into my home. Then I got him a job at the Copacabana. And Doris Lee was singing there. She’s still alive, by the way. And he heard her sing and he said “Is that girl going to sing in here? And he says, “If she sings a here, I no sing a here. A she’s a terrible.” (laugh) And the guy would sing without a microphone. If you’re standing in the street you can hear him. That doesn’t say much for Japanese buildings, but…so that failed. And I got him a job at ..
Q: So he quit?
A: He wouldn’t sing. Wouldn’t sing in that place. So I get him a job at Aoi-Shiroi (Blue-White club). I don’t know if you remember that place. It used to be Aoyama some place. It’s not in existence anymore. He wanted an airplane ticket. $700 bucks to go back to Italy. So I got him a job for $700 bucks. Singing there a couple of days….so when he was practicing, the musicians couldn’t hold the notes. The guy’s voice was so fantastic that when he held a note, they would run out of air with the instruments.
So, in those days I used to run around a lot with Machii. So I told Machii why don’t you come along and listen to this great Italian singer. And then Machii heard him singing, he was very impressed and he sent over a 10,000 yen note. Gift. In those days, 10,000 yen was like 2 or 3 months salary to normal people. When he got the 10,000 yen at the end of the show, he walked back and he threw it back on the table. And he told Machii to fuck himself. In Italian, thank god. So, of course, I had to say that the man was not accustomed to receiving money from customers. He was a professional signer. Oh, you know, anything. ANYthing to keep the lion off his back….Machii’s is not somebody to fuck around with….Hey, that’s a heavyweight. A real heavyweight.
You want another story on Machii?
Q: When did this guy Sessi come to Japan?
A: Oh, it had to be in 1962-1963. Maybe even before that.
Q: What’d Sessi look like?
A: Bald-headed 35 year old man. No wife. Just I’m in love with mama….Could have been even before that….can’t remember…
Q: Fat guy.
A: No, skinny.
Q: Tall guy.
A: Not so big. He’s still alive. He lives in Rome someplace….I tried to bring him back to Japan. He wrote me a letter—bring me back to Japan. But the Japanese don’t want hear opera singers. They want, what do you call that shit music? Rock Roll?
Q: OK.
A: OK. A fighter came to Japan on day by the name of Pascual Perez. Do you know the name?
Q: What year was this?
A: Oh, gee, I can’t answer that question. Anyway, he fought Yoshio Shirai. Or he fought somebody here. And I was involved in the fight business at that time. So Pascual Perez came over to me one day and he said, “I want to meet the gang boss of Tokyo.” Because he said Japan or Tokyo or whatever way you want to say it.
Q: You were involved in the fight business at that time?
A: Yeah.
Q: What were you doing?
A: I had Noguchi dojo. I was sponsor of the dojo. I was paying all their fucking bills. And I could tell you…First let’s talk about Perez. Anyway, Perez came over to me.
And he wanted to meet the crime boss. And I says OK. And I took him down to this dirty little place that Mr. Machii had on the Ginza. A little Korean restaurant. I shouldn’t say too dirty, but, according to the times. So Pascual Perez sits down with me and he says to him “You’re the gang boss of Tokyo,” like that. And Machii thought he was a cute little boy because he weighed 110 pounds, soaking wet, you know. …This was Machii’s Korean restaurant. So, like a bolt out of the blue, he says to Mr. Machii, “I want you to kill somebody for me.” How do you like that? And I’m sitting at the table, listening to this conversation and Machii speaks a little English, you know. And Machii says, “OK.” And he says to Machii like “How much.” Machii looked at him and said, “A million yen.” Those days a million yen was a lot of money.
Q: Machii was just playing along with him?
A: Who knows that game? Anyway, I don ‘t appreciate the position that I’m in. Like you know, what the hell am I doing, you know. And he says, “Ok. Who? Who do you want me to kill?” He says, “My wife’s got a boy friend. He’s a lightweight fighter.” And no flyweight is going to beat a lightweight.” And his wife was a big redhead.
Q: He was a flyweight?
A: He was a flyweight. You check your sportbook and it will tell you when he was in Japan fighting. I can’t remember. Although there is a picture of me sitting in the middle of the fight arena, right next to the ring, you know. But, anyway, he said a million yen. And this little Argentine bastard pulled out a million yen from his pocket and put it on the table. He’s Argentine. I think he was an Argentine. And he put a million yen on the table, and Machii picked it up and put it in his pocket, naturally. And I think that same day, that same night, they got this lightweight fighter and put him on an airplane and sent him back ton Brazil or Argentina or whereever the hell he came from. That night or the next night or something like that. Anyway, they didn ‘t kill him. Then, little Perez comes over to me and says, “I want my money back.” (ha, ha, ha, ha ha) Can you imagine that? I want my money back. I said, “Well, you know where I went. You met the guy. Go ask him yourself.”
Q: The lightweight guy was from Argentine too?
A: Yeah. They fight together. They came together to Japan….Isn’t that cute? I want my money back?
Anyway, another story about Machii. There used to be a big Frenchman here named Maurice. His last name…He’s a Frenchman in charge of the French Judo Association or something like that. Maurice. Well-known in Tokyo in those days.
Q: In charge of the French Judo Association?
A: I think now…he was, or something like that. That’s then days when a guy by the name of Gooznick (Geesink, Anton) won the judo championship. A big Dutchman. Anyway. I was in a club, because those days I was in a nightclub everynight. I was in a club called the Oscar. I think it was the Oskar club, which was over here in Azabu ju-ban.
Q: What year was this? Perez was in early 1960’s, you say?
A: Yeah, because that would be the old place down by the Ginza….Anyway, I walked I the club, and I came in with Maurice. I believed I was together. Now, I came in the club. I might have come in with Machii. Azabu-ju-ban. Now, it’s the guy that owns the Sands…Watanabe. What does he own the dunes in Hawaii? Yasuda owns the Aladdin. Watanbe owns one of those clubs, those casinos in Las Vegas. Anyway, I went in his club. I went in probably with Machii. I went in the club. And we went and sat down at a table. Near the bandstand, far off to the right. And Machii said to me, “Maurice is in the….sitting back there. Ask him to come here. Bring him over here, you see.” And I went over there, and I walked around and I saw Maurice. And I said, “Hey, Maurice, you know, Machii wants to talk to you.” So I didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t see any danger in the conversation. I didn’t see anything at all that was….So Maurice starts following me and walking between the tables and I get to where Machii is sitting. You know I’m sitting with Machii. And there is no Maurice behind me. And I can’t figure out what happened. And I says to Machii, “I’m sorry. He came with me. But he’s gone.” He says “That’s all right. Don’t worry about it. Forget about it.” So I forgot about it for a few minutes.
So what really happened was that these gangsters followed me. And when I asked Maurice to come with me. They were staying somewhere in the background there. And when Maurice got up to come with me, they put a gun to Maurice and took him outside. They were gonna shoot him. You know. And the reason was, I found out of course. Maurice, finally, he came in, and they beat him up. These 110 pounders were fighting a guy that was 220. He could have picked them up with one fucking finger and tossed him across the room. But he couldn’t do anything against gangsters. How do you hit a gangster? Are you crazy? So anyway, they start punching him, and …
Q: He’s a judo champ.
A: He was a judo champ. And he was a big man. He was not little guy, you know. So I told Machii, stop that shit. “That’s my friend. That’s your friend. What the hell are you doing see?” So they stopped, and all the light went out in the club. The club was completely black. Cuz they didn ‘t nobody to see the fight in the corner with gangsters hitting the guy.
Q: This is in the corner.
A: In the corner. They came back in again. You know. And, of course, hen he sat down, he wasn’t bleeding or anything like that because they can’t hurt that guy. I says “What happened.” He says, “You came over to the table and asked me to go with. You. And these gangsters took me outside and they threatened me with their guns. But, anyway, he talked his way back in again. And he came to me…and I says to “:Machii. Why did you do this? What the hell is the fucking reason. I mean what’s going on here? Why do you pick this guy up and do that?” He said, “When you and I came into the club, he didn’t say hello.” Can you imagine that? And I said, “Maurice, You didn’t wave your hand or blink your eye or show a sign of recognition.” He says, “I can’t. I’m sitting with the French Counselor.” Or the French Ambassador. How can you say hello to the known gangster of the town. That was Machii. And, of course, the situation ended there, there was no problem. Course I don ‘t know what happened to Maurice’s side or the Ambassador or whoever he was with.
Good ol Machii.
Q: Jesus. Nice guy. Machii.
A: Ohhh. Let me tell you boy. Well, you know, if you gotta be the gang boss of Tokyo, you gotta be somebody. You know, this is not just a …they’re not selling dope on the corner. And that building, he’s got. That TSK building. It must be worth many millions and millions of dollars. Today, you couldn ‘t buy it. Probably for 20 million bucks, you couldn’t buy the place….A lot more than that. 200 million dollars, you couldn’t buy the place….But that’s a paper asset. Probably the place loses money every fucking month. But then, they got so many sources of fucking income.
Q: Who owned the Oscar?
A: The Oscar was one of the clubs. It was over there, next to my office. In Azabu-ju-ban.
It used to be an automobile repair place and they tore it down and made the club Oscar. It became Azabu motors. And Azabu motors is the so-called agent for Chrysler Motors. They don’t care about selling cars.
Q: Any more stories about Ginza Machii?
A: Well, irrelevant stories…His (man—Tosei-kai captain), Matsubara. Matsubara, ok., you look at him and he’s a physical wreck. He’s got a face that was pushed in by who knows how many hundreds of punches he got in the nose. One of those faces, you know? A fighter that was really…he made mince meat out of him.
Q: Was he a professional fighter?
A: No, no,no…He just was a hellion (alien?) mother fucker. One day I asked him, I said, “Matsubara, what do you always come in my restaurant with guns for? I said, “You should ‘t do that, it’s against the law. What do you always come in my restaurant with guns for? I says, “You should ‘t do that. It’s against then law.” I said, “How many guns you got?” Without exaggeration, that guy must have pulled four guns out of his pocket. Can you imagine that?…This was in the old restaurant. Then first restaurant I had. He pulled guns out and he put them on the fucking counter.
Q: What kind of guns?
A: Oh, you name it. 38’s. He didn’t have no big artillery pieces, but he had ..they were all stub nosed guns. Infighters. Today they call them Saturday specials? But he had .32’s. .38. Like that. And he was just one of them….they were all like that. They all carried guns.
Q: One of the 4000.
A: One of the 4000.
Q: What were his businesses, Ginza Machii. How did he make his money?
A: Well, they used to shake down the clubs. Because they were all over the Ginza and there all the bars and everything like that. But, you know, I don’t want to get involved in what they did for an income, because, I really don’t know, but I imagine they shake down places. They don’t bother me. Nobody came over to me and says “Give me money.” I’d hit’em in the fucking head and give’em their teeth back.
Q: They running prostitution, dope?
A: Those days they had no dope. There was no dope in those days. Today there’s very, very little dope here. You know, we’re talking 25 years ago. But they can make a lot of money by offering protection to the clubs.Against the customers now. Not against other gangsters. There was that group and that was it. (Note: Only in the West Ginza. Sumiysohi-kai factions were constantly battling it out with Tosei-kai for control ofn Tokyo).
Q: OK. Tosei-kai. What was the name of the rival group? Then guy they killed?
A: No, don’t know….
Q: All right. I’m going to be machine gunner some night when this book comes out.
A: Just hide all the real names. Hide the ones that are alive.
The ones that are dead. Nah. I don’t think anybody is going to bother you that much.
Q: It’s too far in the past.
A: They’re all like me. They’re all 68 and tired…(garbled).Well, it’s in the head, but that’s all it is.
Q: Now that night that Killer Austin came in the club with the gangsters and you didn’t want to sit down with him. Why? You didn’t like the guys he was with?
A: No. I was drinking. You know, you get into that restaurant business and you’re talking to somebody. And somebody else comes along. You got to say no to somebody. You say, “I’m busy. I’ll see you later. I’ll come over pretty soon. Anything to..obviouslyn the man I’m talking to must be a friend or an intresting person, or I wouldn’t be talking to him. Especially me, cuz I don’t talk to everybody.
Q: So that night, there was Killer Austin and 3 or 4 gangsters. Can you describe the gangsters?
A: Well, one is named Ikeda. But I think that it’s too dangerous to mention his name. Man, I just call them small hoodlums. But Ikeda is the most notorious gangster in the Machii group. He was the one who even Machii says to me, “I have no control over him”
Q: Any sadistic, or bizarre things he’s done?
A: He just had a reputation a reputation in Tokyo, to keep away from him. He was a mean mother. A very mean mother. But I didn’t give a shit, you know. To me, a Japanese gangster is a piece of shit. Especially if you’re brought up in New York City in East Harlem, and lived on the same street with all those other people. Hey, these guys ain’t nothing. …Anybody can pull a trigger.
So I think I told you up to the time I took Killer Austin up to the Dai-Ichi Hotel,
Q: But I needed a physical description of these guys. What were they like? What did they look like. How did they dress?
A: Oh, a Japanese is a Japanese. What do you call them? They’re what 5’5”. 5’7”? They’re all 130 pounds. 140 pounds. These guys were not musclemen. They were just nasty, because they carried guns you know. Their strength lay in their index finger….
But you can be rest assured that if I can put 5 of them on the floor, they couldn’t be very big, you know.
Q: Then you went over to Tom’s. And Ikeda was there playing darts?
A: He had a leather case. Like you would say would hold 2 cigars. So you can get an idea what the leather case looked like. And then he had 5,m maybe 6 ice picks, where the handle was taken off. Both sides were pointed. And he was getting these things and going like that. Shoo. And they would stick in the wall. He was playing darts with the wall. And the he’d get up and pull them out of the wall.Waiters pulled them out and gave them back. They were very afraid of those people. But anyway, so he said to me, “You think you can do that? Now, I pride myself on being able to throw an knife. Because you learn that in the Marine Corps. But I took these 5 or 6 double end ice picks. And just slammed them against the wall. And they went flying all over the place. And all his gangster buddies were picking them up….
Then, as every gangster in those days carried guns, he pulled a gun out and put it to my fucking temple. My left temple.
Q: You knocked these guys down at your restaurant and you just left, right?
A: Yeah…I mean…how would you say it…I left with K. Pearce and they and Killer Austin went over to Tom’s. There was no argument. When I used physically violence on them. Nobody wanted to argue.
Q: You walked into Tom’s later on and they were sitting thre.
A: There were already in there. I was out with Kenny Pearce and I made Kenny Pearce drive the car. Cuz I don’t think it’s safe for me to drive a car.After a few drinks, you got an car like that under your legs, you can make it move all over town.
Q: Did you known they were there?
A: No, we just walked in. It was an accident….But there weren’t that many places where that type of people go to or should we say, we go to. And Tom’s was notorious for fighting. I told you about Steve Dunleavy there. He’s with the New York Post? So while I was in there, this thing happened. He pulled a gun on me. Kenny Pearce who was on my right hand side, nudged me and put a knife in my hand. A switchblade.
So there isn’t many things you can do when a guy’s got a gun to your temple. And he’s a gangster. And he’s well known. And he’s a mean mother fucker. So I got the knife in my hand and pulled the fucking switchblade on it. You know the button they got. And I stuck it in his throat. And I said to him, “When I say three, you shoot the gun and I slit your fucking throat. One..” The place was already half-evacuated. By two, the ones that couldn’t fly out the window, went through the ceiling. There’s 5 gangsters in that place. One of them has got a gun out. You don’t know what the other guys are going to do. If you’re an innocent bystander. Run is the better part of valor.
Q: Did Tom’s have tables and chairs in it?
A: We were sitting at the bar.
Q: Long and narrow shaped.
A: It was like L-shaped operation. Tables and chairs (or stools and counters) or something at the other side. Cuz we went in here. So when I said 2, I had blood running down my shirt. My sleeve. My right hand thumb. And, of course, no matter how tough you are or how nasty you are, when you see your own blood, you think very differently. Somehow blood has a frightening…what do you call it? Especially when it’s your blood. Some people ain’t afraid of blood. But when it’s their blood, it’s a different story. So he pulled the gun down. But, I kept the knife there. But I told him put the gun on the counter. So he put the gun on t…he counter and I put the knife away. And by that time, there was nobody in Tom’s restaurant. Or Tom’s bar, whichever you want to call it. So the Chinese owner says to me I owe him money. So I gave him a 5,000 yen note. Kenny and I got in the car and took Killer Austin to the Dai-Ichi Hotel where he lived.
Then when we got to the hotel, the four gangsters, or five gangsters, how many of them we had there, four maybe , five. They were standing outside the door of the hotel. They got there before me. So this Ikeda says to me, “Here’s the change from the 5,000 yen you paid to the Chinese.” Jesus Christ. I didn’t even have a drink. That was their bill, I think. I says “Keep the Change.” They said, “no,no,no.” They wouldn’t touch that money. So I took the change.
But before I got out of the car, I saw them and I says “Kenny give me that knife again.” Jesus. What a fucking weapon you got with four guys and they probably had ten guns between them. And I got a fucking four-inch, switchblade. You know.
Q: And that was the end of it.
A: I got back in the car. Killer Austin went back in the hotel. They went in the hotel with him. Kenny and I just drove away. We went to Kenny’s house. And Kenny in those days would steal milk from the house. The milkman would leave milk outside the house and he would go steal all the milk that he wanted to drink. Cuz Kenny lived on what do you call it, uppers? Uppers and downers. Cigarettes. Hamburgers. And milk. Maybe coffee. In don’t know. But he’d never eat. In my restaurant, he wouldn’t eat. But I know what an upper can do. I took one day and I walked into the Azabu Police Station. I was looking to fight the police. And I tell you what, I got out of that hallucination area. I never do that again. That’s like committing suicide. What do they call the? Red Devils. Or Green Devils or something like that.
Q: Uppers or greenies. That’s what the ball players call them.
A: I tell you, boy, they can put a jag on you. So then I got home. I washed my shirt off. I washed my sleeve. I washed my hands. In took all the blood off. When I got to my house, which is next to Machii’s place, right across the street from the Azabu Police Station. Half my living room was full with a welcoming committee of all policeman. That was like 7 or 8 o;clock in the morning. I can’t even remember if my kids went to school yet.
Q: How many policeman?
A: Oh, I’d say ten of them.
Q: And did they want?
A: They wanted me to make a confession. Of course, they says to me, we know all about what happened in Tom’s. How you were there and then guy put a gun on you. And this that and the other things, but we’re not after you. But we’re not after you or anything, we just want to get the man who pulled then gun and all that shit. And I says “I don’t know what you’re talking about. Nobody pulled a gun on me. And this went on and on and on and I kept denying it….I says I was in a whorehouse in Yokohama with a certain girl. And I had../.I knew all the telephone numbers in those days. So In did, I called up the woman and said in case anybody says anything, just say I was here, shacking up. So I guess the police checked the hotel in Yokohama. And the mama-san said “Yes, he was there.” So they let me go. They wanted me to sign a confession that this guy pulled a gun on me. So I said it couldn’t be me, because I was in a whoorhouse in Yokohama and I just drove back from Yokohama, so it’s not me. And they stayed at my house until about 12 in o’clock in the fucking morning…until they got a phone call saying that somebody put Ikeda into the hospital. Somebody beat the shit out of him. So I said, “See, it couldn’t be me, because I was sitting there with you all the time.”
Q: He went to then hospital for that?
A: Of course. Hey, I was a powerful man in those days.
Q: You didn’t tell me you hit him.
A: No, I just cut him with a knife…he was beat up. He was beat up bad. He was beat up twice. Not once. Because Machii was my buddy.
Q: Wait an minute.You cut him, right?
A: An little bit, yeah…just a pinch…But he got physically beat up. Somebody beat him up this way. Put him in the hospital. So they beat him up and he wound up in the hospital.
Q: Who beat him up?
A: They did. Machii and his boys.
Q: Oh, because he was your friend.
A: Of course. I was out with Machii 3 or 4 times a week. Machii was my buddy, buddy, you know. And of course, the police got records that I’m boss of the mafia, and I’m in charge of Murder Incorporated. You should see the fucking things they got about me. Lee Mortimer, is that his name. Was Lee Mortimer the columnist for the Daily Mirror?
Q: Who knows.
A: Yeah, I think it was Mirror. Just came into my head. He’s the son of a bitch that wrote “Frank Sinatra’s not the boss in Japan. It’s Nick Zappetti.” Can you imagine that? Anyways. He was a famous columnist who used write in then daily Mirror. So anyway, when the police got the phone call that somebody him up. And they were with me for four hours. They knew I didn’t do it. They know I can’t get near a telephone. So it couldn’t be me,. It couldn’t be my….so they let me go.
Then shithead Steve Parker. You know that name?
Q: Yeah.
A: He started shacking up with Ikeda’s wife. How do you like that for balls. Ikeda came out of then hospital the first time, they beat him up and put him in again. Twice they did that. And I told Steve. I said, “I heard what you’re doing. If I were you, I’d run like a fucking thief because if that guy ever finds out that you’re fooling around with his wife. Fuck, you’ll be dead. But Steve is a shithead.
Q: He kept doing it?
A: No. Well, he’s safe while the guy is in jail. Unless, he gets the word out that the guy needs revenge.
Q: When was this.
A: Oh…this has to be in 1963. 1961. I had that old place, so it has to be before 64.
Q: What did Ikeda go to jail for?
A: Ikeda didn’t go to jail.
Q: You just said..
A: No, I shouldn’t have said that. I should have said when he was in the hospital. While he was in the hospital, Steve was fooling around with his wife. I mean he might have shacked up with her, once or twice or three times, or something. But you know the word gets out.
Q: You said once before that gangsters were after me. Was that the time. With Ikeda?
A: Yeah. That ‘s the only time they were after me. They never were after me. I escaped those people. You stay non their good side. You have to stay on their good side. No, I was buddy, buddy with the bosses there. If anything the police were always chasing me.
…My mind is running out.
Q: So anyway, when did you get married to Yae?
A: Oh, I married her twice. Probably. The first time I married her.,..Jesus I got remember.
Q: You said your kids were there when the cops came? Your kids were with Yae?
A: No, Yae wasn’t living with me. That was in between marriages.
Q: Those were your kids from your first marriage.
A: First marriage, yeah.
Q: They were staying with you.
A: Yeah, right over here.
Q: Just visiting.
A: They were staying with me and Yae lived down the street here.
Q: How come they weren ‘t staying with your first wife?
A: Oh, I separated from my first wife.
Q: I know. I thought they were living with her.
A: I got the kids back when they/we had trouble with them. And I was not married then. I was shacking up with Yae-chan, but also every little girl that came along. And I lived at Yarai-cho. That’s the fucking house that fucked Scolinas (garbled?) (that fuck Scolinas?) But anyway, that was over here. And over here, I moved in 1957. 1958. From Yarai-ho. So that had to be 1960. My son was born in 1948. He was 12 years old then. So they were going to Nishimachi school here. My daughter was 9. My son was 12. Probably by that time I was married to Yae-chan? (no. That was in 1964). But I can never remember. They’re too fucking hard to remember. You try to forget those fucking things. You don’t want to remember them. It’s bad enough you have to live through that period.
Q: How come you got your kids back? What do you mean, what trouble?
A: Oh, I didn’t tell you that? Well, I tell you. When I involved with the Imperial Hotel Robbery, my wife finally decided she wanted to be divorce, because she didn’t want to associate with a guy like that. And she agreed to give me a divorce. And in the divorce settlement, I gave her custody of the kids and 45,000 yen per month. Now that must have been a great coupe for the Japanese, because the salaries in those days could have been 3,000 to 5,000 a month. Can you imagine what 45,000 yen was? This is 1950…Vincie was about 9 years old….So 1957. 1958. So I got divorced and I gave her the kids and gave her this big money every month. A tremendous amount of money. And, of course, I don’t care. I go down and visit the kids. Even though they didn’t like gaijins. You know. My son still don’t like gaijins. So one day I went down there, it was against my principles to drive on a Sunday, especially on a rainy day. Cuz I like to drive fast. And a rainy day is not the safest day in the world to go fast. So I went to Fujisawa house to deliver a vacuum cleaner that I received. So when I brought the vacuum cleaner into then house. It was an rainy miserable day. Then kids were in then living room, with an open gas burner. You know, that you cook food on….Cold. Winter. February. It was a cold fucking day. I remember that. And so while I was in there I saw a shadow pass between the rooms. And it just didn’t make sense that there should be a shadow in the room there. Because my wife was thre, my ex-wife was there, and my two kids were there. There should be nobody else in the house. So I asked my wife, who’s in the house? And Japanese don’t like to lie, but they don’t want to tell you the story either. She said, “:it’s my house. None of your business.” My house. None of your business. Doesn’t hunt in my pasture. So I went back in the house. I had already put my shoes on to leave. I was in the genkan. (foyer) And I ran back into the house. And this son of a bitch…she started yelling in Japanese..and then guy jumped out the window.
A boy friend.
Q: Japanese guy?
A: Yeah. A heavyweight;. Maybe 120 pounds. And I weighed about 220 then. 210;l. 200. And he ran. And I jumped out the window and chased him. And he ran around the house and around the house. But being a city slicker, I always kept concrete around the house. And the son of a bitch. If he had kept running around the house I would haven died from exhaustion,. But he made a mistake, he went back in the house. And in the house, I got him beat, because a big man is always better in a confined area than a small guy. So I caught him in the living room and hit him once and broke his jaw. His fucking jaw went right down to here. You ever see a guy with a broken jaw? (laugh) It goes right in your neck. That’s how hard I hit that mother fucker. So then I said to her. Give me the kids, I’ll give you this guy. If not, I’m gonna take him. The next punch, I’ll tear his throat out.
So she says, you can have the kids.
And the two kids were saying “No, Mommy. No, Mommy. We don’t want to go with him. We don’t want to go with him.” Can you imagine that, my kids?
So I said the next day there’ll be a katei saiban (family court). Katei Saiban is the Tokyo Divorce Court. And I knew the presiding judge. Or the boss of the fucking place. Judge Kondo. A good friend of mine.
You know in those day I used to know so many fucking people. But I had a memory. I could remember all of them. No, I can’t remember nobody. Give me 2 days and In forgot who I was with.
Q: So you took the kids?
A: They came over to the divorce court. They awarded me the kids. And she could have them every weekend. (note: Wife was forced to choose between kids or boy friend) So In got the 2 kids back.
And so I took my daughter down to Sacred Heart school. And then nun there says to me, your kids can not enter this school, because they’re illegitimate. How about that? I asked her why. And she says cuz your not married in church. Well, of course, I proceeded to call her a fucking whoor.
And I left with my kids. I put my son & daughter in Nishimachi school. Went there to become English speakers That school was run by Tani…Reischauer’s sister-in-law. Her father started the Bank of Hokkaido. Very fucking rich type broad that was educated in New York City. Matsukata. Reischuaer’s wife is her sister.
Q: And the kids have been with you ever since? Or until they grew up?
A: They came…and then first house they lived in was Yarai cho, then we moved to Roppongi….Then with the Daiei’s…the cultural revolution. The anti-establishment movement. Or should I say just before that period. So my daughter used to say, we want to have pajama parties.I want my friends to all sleep here. We can get up in the morning. We can all eat breakfast together. She says to me. “This house is too small.” You know how big that house was. It was 80 tsubo. She said it was too small. Yeah, who the fuck lives in an 80 tsubo house. You know, this is the house over her where Dr. Kanzaki’s got. Behind the “Clover.” 3-storynhouse with 3-4-5 bedrooms. 6-7. I think it had 8 bedrooms in there. Can you imagine that. She says it’s too small.
So I bought a piece of property over here, behind my old restaurant. The guy told me 47 million yen. I bought it from Tommy Han. Tommy Han used to own Sanya restaurants. Now living in SFO I believe. One day, he made then list of the richest foreigners in Tokyo. You know the richest income tax payer. That doesn’t make you the richest foreigner, it makes you the stupidest foreigner.
So he bought the house for 25 million yen and I went to Tommy and asked to buy property, He wanted 45 million for it. So I gave him 45 million. Then 3 million yen to the broker….went to Tokyo Sogo Bank. Lent me money. I bought house,
(End)
Tokyo Junkie 
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